Should I leave Accordance?

[mgvh]

@Diatheke76, @R. Mansfield

Haha.... Ok, that's total resources available in Logos.

I actually only have about 3800 resources available in Logos, but I'm guessing that I really only find a couple 100 of them that I've ever even considered consulting. (The Logos datasets is a separate deal.)

 

Counting Accordance resources in a similar way, I have a little over 300 (and that means a Bible and the Bible notes count as 2), but I've used close to 200 of them.

[Mike Atnip]

12 hours ago, Robert Holmstedt said:

IH tractors ruled over those green things, which stopped being decent after the Johnny poppers. But I stopped paying attention to any of them in the 80s and now they all seem the same -- the cabs all have espresso machines built in and the tractors drive themselves. Pathetic. 

 

I did so much work on our 560 -- what a machine! Loved the tight turns with the tricycle front.

 

Wait, what is thread about again? The tractor comment was like a red cape to the bull inside me.

Oh, software. They have different strengths. I'm a primary text fellow, and Accordance is better. I tend to only use a limited set of commentaries (all deeply exegetical, less theological). Pick the software based on your immediate needs. But always have a red tractor in your machine shed ...

I have put many hundreds of hours in the seat of the red ones. 🙂

Oh, wait, this is software discussion ... I agree that the red logo on my computer monitor outpulls the blue logo in primary texts.

[dandennison]

I have posted my perspective on these matters before, see for example: 

 

 

With respect to the other guys, my number is 19,229. It's mostly an apples and oranges comparision of course, because Accordance counts by collection, whereas the other software counts by individual title. For example, in a commentary series, each volume own adds to the number, whereas in Accordance the series would count as one.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Dan

[Diatheke76]

11 hours ago, mgvh said:

@Diatheke76, @R. Mansfield

Haha.... Ok, that's total resources available in Logos.

I actually only have about 3800 resources available in Logos, but I'm guessing that I really only find a couple 100 of them that I've ever even considered consulting. (The Logos datasets is a separate deal.)

 

Counting Accordance resources in a similar way, I have a little over 300 (and that means a Bible and the Bible notes count as 2), but I've used close to 200 of them.

[GYDOF1729]

Team, when we talk Accordance and original language tools, what are your top 5 tools for Hebrew/Greek? Why?

[Lawrence]

3 minutes ago, GYDOF1729 said:

Team, when we talk Accordance and original language tools, what are your top 5 tools for Hebrew/Greek? Why?

 

I haven't started in Hebrew yet, but for Greek:

 

1. UBS5 or NA28 (the text itself)

2. UBS5 or NA28 apparatus (for basic text-critical information)

3. BDAG (standard lexicon)

4. Brill (lists more forms of words as primary entries)

5. Accordance (to read and search the above)

[Larry Wing]

I'm not anywhere near the level most of you are. I'm an individual who uses software for minor research, commentaries, study bibles, and some Hebrew and Greek resources. I never study using original texts other than when I'm looking at specific words in English. 

 

I have Accordance, Logos (since Libronix days), and Bible Study by Olivetree (first Bible software on my phone - a Blackberry) on my devices but by far Accordance is my main go-to. I do use Logos a little when wanting to check a resource that I don't have in available in Accordance and Olivetree occasionally for the same reason.

 

For my use I find Accordance to be faster and easier to use and cleaner layout. I suppose I could accomplish similar Acc layouts and use in Logos but the learning curve in setting up and using  is more than I care to invest.

 

Like others have said, you can have both and use both beneficially in your reading and studies.

[GYDOF1729]

One of the main additions I would love to see in Accordance because it is very language based is when right-clicking on a Genitive, it would open up a little subset of all of the syntactical ways a Genitive could be used.  This could be done for every part, Nouns, Verbs, etc.  

[Randy Cue]

There are just a couple of formatting options I would like to see that I have mentioned in the past. I do quite a bit of quoting of my Accordance and Logos materials in my function as a Bible teacher in church and small groups. I would like the option of having texts have first line indents in paragraphs. Also, I would like to have God's covenant name be able to be exported in small caps ( I mean LORD in small caps). Those are a couple of formatting things that Logos does better than Accordance right now. Also, I would like to see pagination in all Accordance modules.

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Accordance's Speciality Starter packages for Greek and Hebrew are fantastic. I've recommended them to students.

 

In seminary, I heavily used the UBS5 and NA28 and BHS, plus BDAG and HALOT. Accordance's Analytics search tools were also super-beneficial for me during seminary.

[Donald Cobb]

12 hours ago, Randy Cue said:

There are just a couple of formatting options I would like to see that I have mentioned in the past. I do quite a bit of quoting of my Accordance and Logos materials in my function as a Bible teacher in church and small groups. I would like the option of having texts have first line indents in paragraphs. Also, I would like to have God's covenant name be able to be exported in small caps ( I mean LORD in small caps). Those are a couple of formatting things that Logos does better than Accordance right now. Also, I would like to see pagination in all Accordance modules.

 

Yes, it would be very nice to have a little more control over how citations and Biblical references are exported. The latter, at any rate, has been requested multiple times. It's really a must for anything outside the US.

[arcanemuse]

I have both.  The Logos sales guy had me on speed dial for a while.  I have over 23k resources in Logos.  That equates to somewhere around 70k in dollars.  @@  It has taken me over ten years to do that kind of damage. Yes, Logos has gotten faster.  Yes, Logos has more resources available.  I keep going back to using Accordance, though.  Logos might be getting faster but it is a resource PIG.  It eats up huge amounts of resources and when it starts to index, your whole system begins to tank.  I usually have to pause it for four  hours so I can use my computer.  One thing Logos has that I wish Accordance did have are the Mobile Ed classes.  Those lectures with the interconnected resources are really nice and mostly what I use Logos for.  Accordance has enough quality resources so that you can effectively study the Bible as you read it.  The interface is simpler to use and is designed better, in my opinion.  It is simpler and yet has much more power.  I love watching the training videos for Accordance and learning new things it can do and thinking... wow, I never knew that.  After a lot of thought and time using both, I find that Accordance is the one to use on a day to day basis and Logos is the one to use for the Mobile Ed classes and for when you really need to research something in all those volumes of mostly unnecessary books accumulated over time.  Even though it is faster now, using Logos is still like driving a bus compared to using Accordance, which is like driving a sports car.  If you don't believe me on the resource thing, fire both of them up and look in your task manager or whatever the console thing in Mac is called.  Look at how much memory each of them use and you will be truly amazed. If you want to be even more amazed, get Swordsearcher and fire that up too.  That uses almost no memory at all. 

One thing I really wish for is the ability to import reading plans into Accordance easily.  That and the ability to use your own audio Bible files.  I have to use SwordSearcher for my daily Bible reading since I can listen and read at the same time with it.  If Accordance could make those two features available I would be happier than a pig in slop.  LOL

Stick with Accordance.  It's a keeper.  It's a truly powerful program wrapped up in a simple interface.  It is made to be used by the casual user with ease and has the extra features available for power users to use readily available.  Don't be misled by the allure of the dangling carrot of the never ending library.  Those sales guys at Logos are all too happy to sell you yet another library upgrade or the latest package on sale to add to your payment plan.  It's like a hopeless addiction.  LOL

Edited June 9, 2023 by arcanemuse

[docdave]

1 hour ago, arcanemuse said:

Stick with Accordance.  It's a keeper.  It's a truly powerful program wrapped up in a simple interface.  It is made to be used by the casual user with ease and has the extra features available for power users to use readily available.  Don't be misled by the allure of the dangling carrot of the never ending library.  Those sales guys at Logos are all too happy to sell you yet another library upgrade or the latest package on sale to add to your payment plan.  It's like a hopeless addiction.  LOL

 

I agree 👏

[miketisdell]

On 6/8/2023 at 8:46 AM, GYDOF1729 said:

Team, when we talk Accordance and original language tools, what are your top 5 tools for Hebrew/Greek? Why?

 

It is not so much the original language tools but the capabilities you have with those tools i.e. both Accordance and Logos have an MT-LXX tool but the Accordance tools is much more functional both Accordance and Logos have NA-28 and LXX texts, DSS and MT, etc... but Accordance has the ability to use the [INFIR] command when searching across texts of the same language. And many of the searches available on both systems are much more easily done in Accordance. 


Like a few others here, I have both Logos and Accordance, but use primarily Accordance because my focus is on the original language texts. I use Logos for books that are not available in Accordance, and while I have a very large library in Logos, most of what is included is not of much interest to me; the things that I do use in Logos are the books that I have specifically purchased and not so much the stuff that was included with the package. 

[Donald Cobb]

1 hour ago, miketisdell said:

 

It is not so much the original language tools but the capabilities you have with those tools i.e. both Accordance and Logos have an MT-LXX tool but the Accordance tools is much more functional both Accordance and Logos have NA-28 and LXX texts, DSS and MT, etc... but Accordance has the ability to use the [INFIR] command when searching across texts of the same language. And many of the searches available on both systems are much more easily done in Accordance. 


Like a few others here, I have both Logos and Accordance, but use primarily Accordance because my focus is on the original language texts. I use Logos for books that are not available in Accordance, and while I have a very large library in Logos, most of what is included is not of much interest to me; the things that I do use in Logos are the books that I have specifically purchased and not so much the stuff that was included with the package. 

 

This sums up pretty much perfectly my thoughts and workflow as well.

[darrylmy]

On 6/8/2023 at 8:46 AM, GYDOF1729 said:

Team, when we talk Accordance and original language tools, what are your top 5 tools for Hebrew/Greek? Why?

 

This is actually not an easy question. I would say it depends. If you're primarily using the original languages to aid in your English Bible study, then a list is easier to develop (e.g., Tagged English text; GNT/BHS; BDAG/HALOT[or NIDNTTE/NIDOTTE; Bible dictionary [e.g., IVP Dictionaries, AYBD, etc]; commentary [e.g., IVP Background Commentaries, EBC, etc.] would be at the top of the list).

 

However, if you're employing a methodical exegetical method in the original languages, then I'm not really sure that the question applies. You will need a multitude of different resources (including those mentioned above) at different stages of the exegetical process. For example, one stage might require access to as many texts from different periods as possible (for word studies); another, heavy use of reference grammars (for syntactical analysis and grammatical research); and yet another, the use of multiple major technical commentaries (e.g., exegetical, text critical, etc.) and/or journal articles (for validation of options). This is one of the reasons as well that I think many of us have to use alternative software to supplement Accordance: the reference works that best support our study at a particular stage of the exegetical process is not available in Accordance (and even then, I personally still have to use some print works as well).

 

The great thing about Accordance (as miketidell and Donald Cobb agree) is its capability and ease of use when doing original language research (BTW, this goes beyond just texts, because other works are tagged according to different fields [of information]). The new phrasing feature will help support one's exegetical method as well (although I have not yet personally moved to 14).

 

So, I would say that I think developing a strong exegetical process is the most important thing (and how Accordance can support, make more efficient, and even revolutionize the process) because that will supply your "why" by helping you to determine the top tools along each stage of the process (according to your confessional stance, denomination, level of training, etc). Or, if you follow an exegetical process that is already established, most of the textbooks out there will suggest reference works for each stage as well.

 

[mgvh]

Here's a typical work pattern for me. I've just finished a draft of a full translation of the Gospel of Mark oriented to communicating the oral features in the Greek into English. Still, it is similar to the kind of work I do when studying a text while preparing for a sermon or Bible study. My example is typical when working with a gospel text. All of this can be done in Logos, of course, but this is a very intuitive, simple, and clear workflow for me in Accordance with all the info I need easy to access.

 

1) My basic layout is NA28 paralleled with the NET Bible.

• Neither the NET Bible translation nor notes are perfect, but they are often a helpful start.
• I have the Instant Details open on the bottom to get quick info
• I have the next tab available for any quick right-click searches from my primary tab.

2) If I'm working on my own translation or simply wanting to confirm the nuances of the Greek...

• I have Live Click enabled. This enables me to:
  • Use the Lexicon Lookup for study of an individual word. Resources I regularly use are:
    • BDAG
    • Exegetical Dictionary of the NT
    • NIDNTTE
    • Brill Dictionary of Ancient Greek
    • NT Word Study Dictionary
  • I will also use this in conjunction with the Word Study tool to get a quick survey of a word's use and links to resources
  • I also regularly consult the Word Usage tool to scan and see if a word has a particular usage or is a thematic word
  • I greatly appreciate the Verse Lookup tool. I have that active in its own large tab. I either have it tab-tied to my main window or else I just click on the verse reference to get to the verse in question. I find it very helpful to compare English versions, and I have them ordered roughly in a literal > dynamic/functional > paraphrased order.

3) For somewhat deeper work (3-5 not necessarily in order):

• I will often open in a parallel pane one of the following and then toggle through them as necessary:
  • USB Handbook
  • SIL Exegetical Summary Series
  • Exegetical Guide to the GNT (<< and btw, Accordance, please get the volume on the second half of Mark released!)
• These resources focus on grammatical lexical features

4) Especially with a gospel text, I will often want to compare the passage in the other gospels.

• Click on the verse > Amplify icon > Parallels > Gospel Parallels which I keep open in its own tab (<< And to repeat a request I've made before, instead of having to go through Amplify, it would be nice if right-click on a verse included Parallels in the popup menu)
• I find the Aland Gospel Parallels most helpful, and I have Greek and English both displayed.

5) More? Here's where I open the Info Pane. With this open:

• Check out my commentaries for info about the verse
• Check cross-references (I find the Treasury of Scripture Knowledge to be the most helpful)
• Check out study Bibles: I've especially come to appreciate the Jewish Annotated NT (and the Jewish Study Bible for OT work) and the NIV Cultural Study Bible
• Grammatical works: I especially use Wallace’s Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics and my own Understanding NT Greek
• There are, of course, many other linked resources to follow up with here too

[TyreeWD3]

53 minutes ago, mgvh said:

Here's a typical work pattern for me. I've just finished a draft of a full translation of the Gospel of Mark oriented to communicating the oral features in the Greek into English. Still, it is similar to the kind of work I do when studying a text while preparing for a sermon or Bible study. My example is typical when working with a gospel text. All of this can be done in Logos, of course, but this is a very intuitive, simple, and clear workflow for me in Accordance with all the info I need easy to access.

 

1) My basic layout is NA28 paralleled with the NET Bible.

• Neither the NET Bible translation nor notes are perfect, but they are often a helpful start.
• I have the Instant Details open on the bottom to get quick info
• I have the next tab available for any quick right-click searches from my primary tab.

2) If I'm working on my own translation or simply wanting to confirm the nuances of the Greek...

• I have Live Click enabled. This enables me to:
  • Use the Lexicon Lookup for study of an individual word. Resources I regularly use are:
    • BDAG
    • Exegetical Dictionary of the NT
    • NIDNTTE
    • Brill Dictionary of Ancient Greek
    • NT Word Study Dictionary
  • I will also use this in conjunction with the Word Study tool to get a quick survey of a word's use and links to resources
  • I also regularly consult the Word Usage tool to scan and see if a word has a particular usage or is a thematic word
  • I greatly appreciate the Verse Lookup tool. I have that active in its own large tab. I either have it tab-tied to my main window or else I just click on the verse reference to get to the verse in question. I find it very helpful to compare English versions, and I have them ordered roughly in a literal > dynamic/functional > paraphrased order.

3) For somewhat deeper work (3-5 not necessarily in order):

• I will often open in a parallel pane one of the following and then toggle through them as necessary:
  • USB Handbook
  • SIL Exegetical Summary Series
  • Exegetical Guide to the GNT (<< and btw, Accordance, please get the volume on the second half of Mark released!)
• These resources focus on grammatical lexical features

4) Especially with a gospel text, I will often want to compare the passage in the other gospels.

• Click on the verse > Amplify icon > Parallels > Gospel Parallels which I keep open in its own tab (<< And to repeat a request I've made before, instead of having to go through Amplify, it would be nice if right-click on a verse included Parallels in the popup menu)
• I find the Aland Gospel Parallels most helpful, and I have Greek and English both displayed.

5) More? Here's where I open the Info Pane. With this open:

• Check out my commentaries for info about the verse
• Check cross-references (I find the Treasury of Scripture Knowledge to be the most helpful)
• Check out study Bibles: I've especially come to appreciate the Jewish Annotated NT (and the Jewish Study Bible for OT work) and the NIV Cultural Study Bible
• Grammatical works: I especially use Wallace’s Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics and my own Understanding NT Greek
• There are, of course, many other linked resources to follow up with here too

@mgvh Thanks for sharing. Professor Hoffman, when you used BibleWorks as your main Bible software, you put together a "how to setup" profile for your students.  Have you done the same with Accordance? If so, do you mind sharing it.  

[mgvh]

1 hour ago, TyreeWD3 said:

@mgvh Thanks for sharing. Professor Hoffman, when you used BibleWorks as your main Bible software, you put together a "how to setup" profile for your students.  Have you done the same with Accordance? If so, do you mind sharing it.  

I do have recommended set up information! Use it at your own risk, though. I haven't fully updated info for Accordance 14, but it should be good otherwise.

https://ltsg-my.sharepoint.com/:f:/g/personal/mhoffman_uls_edu/Eo_AwABtzoxIvUSsDKS6eGEBoFbI5CKG7sND1rTaJAQ4lg?e=oiWTah

[TyreeWD3]

2 hours ago, mgvh said:

I do have recommended set up information! Use it at your own risk, though. I haven't fully updated info for Accordance 14, but it should be good otherwise.

https://ltsg-my.sharepoint.com/:f:/g/personal/mhoffman_uls_edu/Eo_AwABtzoxIvUSsDKS6eGEBoFbI5CKG7sND1rTaJAQ4lg?e=oiWTah

@mgvh Thank you, sir.

[PeterStan]

Some of you seem to be comparing apples to oranges.

In Accordance, all features of the software are included with the most basic package.

In Logos, you have to upgrade to unlock additional features of the software.

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Reminds me of Windows versus macOS. :-) 

[Trevor Rosine]

On 6/7/2023 at 3:12 PM, Nathan Parker said:

@KevinPurcell I'll leave your link up. You're not "overly promoting" the competition and being reasonable in your post. I'm personally fine with it.

 

@ekim37 You have the freedom to use any Bible software you wish, and you also have the freedom to have multiple "tools" in your Bible study toolbox. You're not limited/restricted to using just one.

 

Since you've invested heavily in Accordance modules and learning how to use Accordance, there's no reason to "leave Accordance". You get to keep everything you own. You're also in the driver's seat on what you want to buy, when you want to buy it.

 

I also have a large Logos library, and I've used Logos for years in addition to Accordance. Even though I work for Accordance, I still occasionally buy books from Logos when there's something I can't get in Accordance (and with my new job, I can afford to buy Logos books easily) 🙂

 

Here's a rundown of my "Bible study toolbox":

 

1. Accordance is my primary Bible software app and what I turn to first. It's still faster than Logos, and its Bible-centric and primary text-centric and focus on biblical languages works better for my workflow than attempting to use Logos for these tasks. I dived into Accordance during my biblical language classes in seminary, and I don't see myself changing that workflow in another Bible app.

 

2. I use Logos as a replacement for a "seminary library". Since I'm an online student and getting books from my seminary library isn't a smooth process, Logos works well for me as an "eReader" for reading stuff that isn't in Accordance and when I need to access a large amount of resources. Plus since I own the content, even when I graduate from seminary, I still get to keep the content. I will likely at least stay current with their Full Feature Set editions.

 

3. I used Wordsearch for a long time when the PC I had couldn't run Logos, plus I was able to snag a bunch of books from Wordsearch super-cheap. All of that was merged into Logos. I still miss some of those deals!

 

4. I still keep a copy of SwordSearcher around on a PC since there's a few tools I use in it when studying the KJV or needing to consult some Independent Fundamentalist Baptist content (since my high school leaned in that direction). Some of that I'd like to eventually get in Accordance, but in the meantime, it's there in my toolbox if I need it. I may keep current with it on future releases just to support the developer.

 

5. Since I don't have an Amazon account, I use ChristianBook Reader or Barnes & Noble for books I can't get in Bible software, and I primarily read them on a Nook E-Ink eReader so I can rest my eyes. I also use Internet Archive, my local library apps, and a Scribd subscription for finding books not in Bible software or books I'd only read once and give away.

 

6. I still keep a handful of content in print (a leather Bible, John Butler's books in print, etc), as a backup in case we had a major power/Internet/technology outage. I'd still want a way to study the Bible without technology.

 

I used to use YouVersion and e-Sword on the side, but at the moment, I haven't found a reason to keep using them. I never got into BibleWorks (I spent all my BibleWorks money on. Accordance modules, which was a wise choice). I only keep OliveTree around just to be familiar with it. I never did get into heavily using it.

 

When buying books, I generally check various sales to see how I can get the best deals on books. Since Accordance runs weekly sales, there may be times that the modules you want are on a good sale with Accordance, so you buy them with us. Your choice. 

 

I'd recommend at least keeping current with your Accordance features upgrade to ensure you have the latest features of Accordance. Then buy modules when you need them or want them.

I wish I knew how to document all of my books or purchases from accordance in a third party app like LibraryThing. This way I can use Logos and Accordance seperately, but not waste money buy accidently buying the same thing twice... 😃 

[ScottDF]

24 minutes ago, Trevor Rosine said:

I wish I knew how to document all of my books or purchases from accordance in a third party app like LibraryThing. This way I can use Logos and Accordance seperately, but not waste money buy accidently buying the same thing twice... 😃 

Since I do this, here's one method. In Library Thing make a Collection called Accordance, one called Logos, and as many others as you need. Many of my books are in multiple collections -- Accordance and To Read, for example. But Library Thing has all my books. Books I've read but don't own are in Read But Unowned. Now it's pretty easy to see what I have. 

[ReformedDoc]

58 minutes ago, Trevor Rosine said:

I wish I knew how to document all of my books or purchases from accordance in a third party app like LibraryThing. This way I can use Logos and Accordance seperately, but not waste money buy accidently buying the same thing twice... 😃 

I purposely bought some of the same resources/modules to stay in Accordance instead of using both simultaneously.