Sonoma wrecked Accordance

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

@Lawrence Accordance is a universal app for both Intel and Apple Silicon Macs. It does not require Rosetta.

[michael_ruel@yahoo.com]

Same as all the above, very disappointing! I upgraded to Sonoma on Mac 2019 Intel i9 and Accordance is hosed.  This should have been an email to all of us telling us not to upgrade if they weren't ready!

 

 Glad I finished my sermon prep for the day, but there will be more work needed TOMORROW...HELP

Edited September 27, 2023 by michael_ruel@yahoo.com

[michael_ruel@yahoo.com]

UPDATE: I tried to upgrade Accordance to 14 and that made it worse LOL

[David Shiflet]

10 hours ago, Jordan Gowing said:

 

I operate under the assumption that "unless I hear otherwise," there shouldn't be any issues after an OS upgrade. Unless I missed something, there wasn't any communication beforehand of "hold off, because this isn't working," so I assumed there wouldn't be any issues with install. I also have upgraded to Sonoma and run into the same problem.

 

One of the constant refrains from the past year of Accordance "missteps" is a request for better communication. It is unfortunate that the problems associated with upgrading to Sonoma weren't identified and communicated before Tuesday's release so that these frustrations could have been avoided.

It’s absolutely unacceptable how Accordance has handled this. They have known for over a month that Accordance had issues running on Sonoma. And you’re correct, Jordan and Michael, they could have warned users about compatibility, but they didn’t. 

Edited September 28, 2023 by David Shiflet

[David Shiflet]

4 hours ago, Nathan Parker said:

It is primarily Intel Macs having the issue. I have more details here:

 

This is our "please wait to install Sonoma" post, and I am working to see if we can get it linked in a prominent place on our website.

 

Good points though in that the future, we'll need to send out the "please wait to upgrade" post sooner. 

 

Nathan, I interacted with you over a month ago on this issue. Accordance knew there was a problem, and Accordance knew they had no fix yet. And yet, it was NOT taken seriously. 
 

Yes, a notice to refrain from updating should have been MUCH sooner and MUCH more prominent, but even better, Accordance should have a solution for its loyal users by now. We have been utterly disrespected in the handling of this. 

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

We'll have an email out shortly.

 

We'll also have a beta addressing Sonoma issues shortly as well. For those who will need it for immediate work and do not already have it, message me.

[A. Smith]

Based on what I'm seeing on the beta forum, there is no point in using the beta currently available. It is having the exact same problems I'm currently experiencing. 

[A. Smith]

3 hours ago, Nathan Parker said:

We'll have an email out shortly.

 

We'll also have a beta addressing Sonoma issues shortly as well. For those who will need it for immediate work and do not already have it, message me.

 

I'm sorry to pile on, but this is literally too little, too late. 

 

If the app was having these problems, and the accordance team knew about it, This should have been done Monday at the latest. The latest! Now there are who knows how many accordance users who did exactly what the largest corporation in the world, a company generally trusted for stability and reliability, told them to do and upgraded their OS only to find that accordance doesn't work. I've been to the accordance office. I know you're not run out of someone's mom's garage. For the life of me I can't understand how something like this has happened and how you all seem so surprised by the whole thing. 

 

Now I've got another day where I literally can't do my job. 

 

Small companies can go one of two ways. They can stay on top of their customers needs, explain things clearly and openly, and get patience and respect from majority of users. And they can remain stable and grow.

 

Or, they can basically ignore their users, wreck their experience, and wonder why sales are declining. 

 

This is not a positive step. And, despite my persistent optimism, I have to wonder what in the world is happening at accordance and how much longer the dumpster fire can remain under control. It would have been so much simpler to send out a series of mass communications last week apologizing for the delay and asking for patience. We'd happily do that, even if we were frustrated to miss out on the latest OS update. 

 

But this???

 

Did you somehow not know? Have ALL of your programers just moved to apple silicon and abandoned intel users? How was this a surprise????

[A. Smith]

15 hours ago, Jordan Gowing said:

 

I operate under the assumption that "unless I hear otherwise," there shouldn't be any issues after an OS upgrade. Unless I missed something, there wasn't any communication beforehand of "hold off, because this isn't working," so I assumed there wouldn't be any issues with install. I also have upgraded to Sonoma and run into the same problem.

 

One of the constant refrains from the past year of Accordance "missteps" is a request for better communication. It is unfortunate that the problems associated with upgrading to Sonoma weren't identified and communicated before Tuesday's release so that these frustrations could have been avoided.

 

Communication is everything. We're a loyal user base. Clearly. We may be disappointed that the updates are slow. But so long as there is open communication, we can roll with it.

 

But this lack of communication, ignoring blatant problems, erodes that trust and loyalty. 

[Daniel L]

And communication to new users. There is a link on the home page directly to the Mac installation file with no warning/notice. There should be a warning there, as well as on the v. 14 upgrade page, and on every page with download links. (though more nuanced than mine 👇 )

[Teddy24]

4 hours ago, A. Smith said:

 

Communication is everything. We're a loyal user base. Clearly. We may be disappointed that the updates are slow. But so long as there is open communication, we can roll with it.

 

But this lack of communication, ignoring blatant problems, erodes that trust and loyalty. 

I honestly have lost my confidence in Accordance at this point. I do use Accordance sometimes, because i already bought many resources but I have begun to use Logos more than I did before. 

[A. Smith]

14 minutes ago, Teddy24 said:

I honestly have lost my confidence in Accordance at this point. I do use Accordance sometimes, because i already bought many resources but I have begun to use Logos more than I did before. 

 

I’m using it exclusively again today even though I don’t have the resources I need and can’t do all that I need to do. Thank God I have it otherwise I’d be delayed even more. Thankfully, too, iOS is working fine so I can view and edit my user notes for my current project. 

[darrylmy]

As previously expressed by Accordance staff elsewhere, I'm sure that Accordance would like to rebuild their reputation for stability, research-grade texts, and great customer service and communication. Those are great goals for the company in general. But I feel like there is a deeper underlying issue that perhaps needs to be addressed.

 

It makes me wonder if Accordance has lost sight of its user base when I read statements like the following:

 

10 hours ago, A. Smith said:

Now I've got another day where I literally can't do my job. 

 

4 hours ago, A. Smith said:

I don’t have the resources I need and can’t do all that I need to do.

 

I believe that @A. Smith has mentioned that he does work in Bible translation. Bible translation.

 

No matter what faith tradition the Accordance staff may now be a part of, I think it's a good reminder that Accordance is not just trying to build a good reputation and a (profitable) company with longevity—but it's supporting the work of God. Bible translators. Pastors. Professors. Teachers. Students. People in homes and in secular workplaces that study God's Word to be effective for His Kingdom. We all depend upon Accordance for helping us study God's Word. This is (the majority of) your user base.

 

So when there are work-stopping problems with the software, or when problems aren't anticipated, or especially, when known problems are not even communicated, there are larger issues at stake than just the company's reputation (important as it is). And although Accordance has a loyal user base, at the end of the day, it is a tool that is supposed to help its user base be the most effective in their own personal calling. So ultimately, I think Accordance needs to be consciously considering the weight of all the work that is at stake and how they can best support that work throughout every process within the company. Otherwise, the inevitable question will be: why should users choose this tool over another?

[David Garrison]

I guess I'll be the guy who posts the unpopular opinion, but I think it's a point that ought to be made.

 

As a habitual early adopter (oh look, new shiny toys!), I am well aware of the risks I take in doing so.  I've always been told by folks who are far techier and geekier than I am that one should never download the .0 version of any new software.  Always wait until the .1 release and the major kinks are worked out.  I'm far too impatient for that, but I also take ownership of the risk that I'm taking.  I've also been told that if I'm going to insist on installing a .0 version, do the due diligence to make sure that "mission critical" software is compatible with the new release.  Again, I'm too impatient for that, but that's my problem not the developers.

This isn't to say that this situation couldn't have been handled better by Accordance.  Nor is it to lessen the validity of the complaints and problems expressed.  I am saying that, as with most things, the fault doesn't lie solely with Accordance.  If Accordance is so essential to your work that you can not do your job without it, there is a measure of responsibility on you to first ensure the necessary compatibility.

[A. Smith]

44 minutes ago, David Garrison said:

I guess I'll be the guy who posts the unpopular opinion, but I think it's a point that ought to be made.

 

As a habitual early adopter (oh look, new shiny toys!), I am well aware of the risks I take in doing so.  I've always been told by folks who are far techier and geekier than I am that one should never download the .0 version of any new software.  Always wait until the .1 release and the major kinks are worked out.  I'm far too impatient for that, but I also take ownership of the risk that I'm taking.  I've also been told that if I'm going to insist on installing a .0 version, do the due diligence to make sure that "mission critical" software is compatible with the new release.  Again, I'm too impatient for that, but that's my problem not the developers.

This isn't to say that this situation couldn't have been handled better by Accordance.  Nor is it to lessen the validity of the complaints and problems expressed.  I am saying that, as with most things, the fault doesn't lie solely with Accordance.  If Accordance is so essential to your work that you can not do your job without it, there is a measure of responsibility on you to first ensure the necessary compatibility.

This has NEVER been an issue for me with ANY OTHER APP. All my other apps issue updates at least by the week leading up to the OS release. Sure there are bugs. But I’ve never been crippled like this. 
 

In the past I have waited for some OS updates. But this particular OS had enough big features and improvements—and I had no info to make me think accordance would be any different than Word, Parallels, OmniFocus, Adobe, Logos, Nord VPN, Zoom, ClickUp, TP Link, Kindle, Calibre, and all the other apps that work perfectly fine on Sonoma—so that I didn’t feel the need to wait and wanted the improvements of the OS. 
 

Sorry. I won’t take responsibility for this. 

Edited September 28, 2023 by A. Smith

[David Shiflet]

56 minutes ago, David Garrison said:

I guess I'll be the guy who posts the unpopular opinion, but I think it's a point that ought to be made.

 

As a habitual early adopter (oh look, new shiny toys!), I am well aware of the risks I take in doing so.  I've always been told by folks who are far techier and geekier than I am that one should never download the .0 version of any new software.  Always wait until the .1 release and the major kinks are worked out.  I'm far too impatient for that, but I also take ownership of the risk that I'm taking.  I've also been told that if I'm going to insist on installing a .0 version, do the due diligence to make sure that "mission critical" software is compatible with the new release.  Again, I'm too impatient for that, but that's my problem not the developers.

This isn't to say that this situation couldn't have been handled better by Accordance.  Nor is it to lessen the validity of the complaints and problems expressed.  I am saying that, as with most things, the fault doesn't lie solely with Accordance.  If Accordance is so essential to your work that you can not do your job without it, there is a measure of responsibility on you to first ensure the necessary compatibility.

 

11 minutes ago, A. Smith said:

This has NEVER been an issue for me with ANY OTHER APP. All my other apps issue updates at least by the week leading up to the OS release. Sure there are bugs. But I’ve never been crippled like this. 
 

In the past I have waited for some OS updates. But this particular OS had enough big features and improvements—and I had no info to make me think accordance would be any different than Word, Parallels, OmniFocus, Adobe, Logos, Nord VPN, Zoom, ClickUp, TP Link, Kindle, Calibre, and all the other apps that work perfectly fine on Sonoma—so that I didn’t feel the need to wait and wanted the improvements of the OS. 
 

Sorry. I won’t take responsibility for this. 

NOPE! Accordance KNEW there was a problem, and they failed to notify their users. We are not talking about inconvenient or annoying bugs or sporadic crashes. We're talking about a wide-spread, known and total incompatibility. Just yesterday, Nathan promised an email to Accordance users, and yet nothing has gone out yet. 

 

I did take responsibility for installing Sonoma betas and discovering that Accordance was incompatible on my Intel Mac. But that was over a month ago. Accordance team knew (or should have known!), long before the Sonoma public release, that many of their users would be dead in the water with their software. And they did NOTHING to warn users to prevent it.

Edited September 28, 2023 by David Shiflet

[Rich]

1 hour ago, David Garrison said:

I guess I'll be the guy who posts the unpopular opinion, but I think it's a point that ought to be made.

 

As a habitual early adopter (oh look, new shiny toys!), I am well aware of the risks I take in doing so.  I've always been told by folks who are far techier and geekier than I am that one should never download the .0 version of any new software.  Always wait until the .1 release and the major kinks are worked out.  I'm far too impatient for that, but I also take ownership of the risk that I'm taking.  I've also been told that if I'm going to insist on installing a .0 version, do the due diligence to make sure that "mission critical" software is compatible with the new release.  Again, I'm too impatient for that, but that's my problem not the developers.

This isn't to say that this situation couldn't have been handled better by Accordance.  Nor is it to lessen the validity of the complaints and problems expressed.  I am saying that, as with most things, the fault doesn't lie solely with Accordance.  If Accordance is so essential to your work that you can not do your job without it, there is a measure of responsibility on you to first ensure the necessary compatibility.

 

So, I just want to say... the beta has been out for months... the GM/RC was out for at least a week.  I find it problematic to state that the user shares responsibility here.   The company who makes this software failed to communicate that there were known issues which apparently were brought up well in advance with the new OS.  Users are taught to regularly keep their software up-to-date and generally have an expectation at this stage that things will continue to work. 

 

There are software genres that often take 6 months to support a new OS (anything to do with music production for example).  Every company for that genre starts communicating in advance two things:   #1 don't upgrade until we communicate it's safe and #2 a status report on the state of support.   As A. Smith noted and similar to my experience, everything on my desktop computer works perfectly after the upgrade without issue.  (To be very clear, I have a laptop where I do music production, and I haven't upgraded it yet because those companies communicated in advance of the issues not to upgrade).  Fortunately, I have an Apple Silicon Mac and currently don't experience issues on my main machine, but do have a couple Intel Macs for family members that I'll hold off on.

 

The issue again isn't that Accordance wasn't ready — we are a loyal group of users — it's that they knew well in advance and didn't notify the user base.   I find it a bit frustrating to assign any blame to the users in this instance.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Rich

[Daniel L]

8 hours ago, A. Smith said:

Thankfully, too, iOS is working fine so I can view and edit my user notes for my current project.

 

If Accordance had released the web/cloud version of Accordance 14 as had been announced, even with fewer features, this debacle wouldn't be as much a crisis for affected customers.

 

Also, this shows the importance of adding more features to the mobile versions. Customers need life-boat options for when one version is unusable.

[c. stirling bartholomew]

8 hours ago, A. Smith said:

... I had no info to make me think accordance would be any different than Word ... Adobe ...

 

 

@David Garrison

 

Tom and Roger (mentioned earlier),  my Easter brunch companions at Beth's café Green Lake, Home of the 64 egg omelette, would have found this thread mildly amusing.  Years ago when i participated in Adobe Lr public beta releases they were almost impossible to break. While Apple Mail is so full of bugs it is almost impossible to compose text and the spell checking is abominable.  The best time to install a new operating system is when the next (following) major version is released. Wait until there are multiple security updates to the last number on the right: 13.5.8.   Mac OS professional early adopters have a production platform and a beta platform and never risk  anything when they install  on one of their beta platforms. 

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by c. stirling bartholomew

[Lawrence]

@A. Smith

 

Is it an option to downgrade from Sonoma back to Ventura?

There are some how-to guides for this when googling "downgrade sonoma".

 

 

It's not ideal, but if Accordance doesn't work at all on Sonoma, downgrading might help get the show on the road again.

Be sure to make a full backup before attempting to downgrade Sonoma.

 

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

I've read there is, but it's not an easy task, and one you would want official instructions form Apple on.

[A. Smith]

15 hours ago, Lawrence said:

@A. Smith

 

Is it an option to downgrade from Sonoma back to Ventura?

There are some how-to guides for this when googling "downgrade sonoma".

 

 

It's not ideal, but if Accordance doesn't work at all on Sonoma, downgrading might help get the show on the road again.

Be sure to make a full backup before attempting to downgrade Sonoma.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Nathan Parker said:

I've read there is, but it's not an easy task, and one you would want official instructions form Apple on.

appreciate the help. I’ve decided to instal on my windows vm since I’m already using parallels for paratext nearly every day anyway. I know there are bugs but bugs are better than nothing. 

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

51 minutes ago, A. Smith said:

appreciate the help. I’ve decided to instal on my windows vm since I’m already using parallels for paratext nearly every day anyway. I know there are bugs but bugs are better than nothing. 

 

I sent you some instructions to copy files into Windows. Let me know if that works. If not, I'll do my best to assist.

[Brian Phillips]

I'm almost reluctant to post, being that this will be deep down in this thread. But I think it needs to be said. Some users are complaining that there was no notice in the forums. Nathan provided one example of a post that was made (not sure where in the forums though).

 

Regardless...

 

It's Oaktree Software's responsibility to make sure their product works with major OS releases. It is not the user's job to make sure he or she "checks in" at the forum to see whether or not there will be issues. I have a lot of applications on my Mac — I don't check the forums for each of these products to make sure it's "okay" to upgrade my Mac. All of them plan ahead and make sure their product works on new OS releases. All except Oaktree Software.

 

I spent a bit of money updating and adding resources to Accordance this year. I became frustrated that things don't work as they should -- multiple things. Search results are off, bible texts are mapped in odd ways to the Greek and a host of other issues. I even continued buying a few resources after becoming aware of the multiple problems because I figured Oaktree Software would make good on the problems. I guess I was an optimist and shouldn't have been. One reply from the company on one bug in the software said, in paraphrase, "I'll report it to the developers but no idea when it'll get fixed because they're swamped." 

 

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Thanks for the wise feedback, and we're certainly reading it and listening to it as we move forward. I appreciate it.