Accordance and Linux

[Jesse Dornfeld]

Just wondering if Accordance works with Linux, and what version(s).

 

I'm tired of Mircosoft spying on me and might make the switch.

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Accordance does not run natively on Linux, and chances are no matter what eschatological position you hold, Jesus will likely return before we’d have a chance to produce a native version of Linux.

 

Accordance 10 can run “decently” in WINE/CrossOver on Linux (I tried it), but even then the experience is clunky. I have a forum thread on here where I tried Accordance 11-13 on CrossOver, and it was a no-go.

 

Accordance can run in a Windows VM on a Linux Machine, or if you dual-boot Windows and Linux on a machine. Then you could use Linux for the times you want more security/privacy, and use Windows when you have to run Accordance or any other non-Linux apps.

 

Accordance Cloud (our web-based version that’s still in the works, but will likely launch sometime in 2023) only requires a web browser. That will be one way to read your Accordance modules and perform some Bible study tasks on a Linux machine, ChromeBook, etc. All you’ll need is a web browser. It won’t be feature-identical with the desktop version, but you’ll at least have your library there.

 

In terms of Microsoft’s “spying”, I have some support articles on how to disable some of Microsoft’s telemetry features in Windows 10/11 if you’re interested in them. DM me and I can send them to you, or post a message in “Windows Wisdom” asking for them if you want them. I’ve successfully used some of these before to make Windows a little less chatty when I used to use Windows (I’m now Mac only).

 

Off Topic: For those who are absolutely wanting/needing a Linux machine, I’m parting with my System76 Linux notebook that runs Pop!_OS. So as not to derail the forums, DM me for any questions on that.

[Pastor Jonathan]

@Jesse D,

 

I am running Accordance off a VM on PureOS. 

 

There are a few little things I would suggest:

 

1. Make sure you set enough space to run the program. 

2. Make sure your system can handle the extra load as my old laptop took an hour to just download a smallish file. 

3. Make sure you have at least two screens. I use four. Three for my Linux operation, and one for the VM only. This allows me to use my web mail, my net searching, my Libreoffice for writing and notes, and then the fourth for Accordance in the VM. 

4. To help, I do not do a lot on the VM. I run the Windows with bare stock. I do not change anything, add anything, adjust anything so it is bland. The onlything Microsoft has to see is I have Accordance. I do not log in on anything, or access the net for anything on the VM. Everything else is done on the Linux side. 

 

The nice thing is I can see both desktop environments doing it this way so I can go from one to the other without missing anything. Now I am waiting for Accordance 14 fixes, and then the Cloud which will really be a game changer for me. 

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Thanks for this useful information!

[Pastor Jonathan]

Welcome. 

[cim]

If Apple can put thousands of high end applications on Unix, Accordance can do the same on Linux.

Ubuntu this week released a free upgrade to the Pro distribution, which is all about hardened security, with nothing new to learn.

Windows is in the decline, Microsoft is losing interest.

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

It’s not a matter of “can” (bringing Accordance to different platforms is technically possible), but it’s currently a matter of “user base”. The amount of Accordance users who run Accordance on some form of Linux machine (in a Windows VM on Linux or Accordance 10 under WINE/CrossOver) is pretty low at the moment. There’s simply not enough Accordance users who would run Accordance natively on Linux to justify development expenses, especially development expenses that need to go toward Accordance on Mac, Windows, iOS/iPadOS, Android, and Cloud. 

 

Accordance Cloud, once released, will be one major option that will allow Linux users to access their Accordance library and study the Bible on Linux, as well as any other device with a web browser (ChromeBook, etc). It’s one way on getting a version of Accordance onto various platforms without producing a native app for such platforms. Other major Bible software developers, and even many popular free Bible apps have a web version, so it makes sense that Accordance Cloud is an area we need to venture into.

 

I gave Linux a serious evaluation last year. I installed Linux Mint on the bare metal of an iMac and tried to use it as my daily OS, then I personally spent over $1,300 on a System76 notebook to try using Pop!_OS as my daily driver (I recently sold my System76 notebook to an Accordance user). The bottom line is, I agree with what @R. Mansfield said on here a while back. I like the “idea” of Linux, but I have to stick with a Mac as my daily driver. Linux is free, open-source, secure, and overall the learning curve wasn’t bad. If I could comfortably work on Linux as my daily driver, I would. When I used to do IT system troubleshooting, for many people who use Windows PCs that mainly perform light browsing, email, and occasional word processing that I had to remove viruses and cleanup their system, they could have easily gotten by with Linux and likely not missed Windows or even noticed a difference. However, for me personally, as well as for many other users, there are too many critical apps to rely on that I cannot easily run on Linux. I need the full Accordance and Logos desktop apps, Mellel, Nota Bene, Microsoft Office (there are times when I have to share work files with other Microsoft Office users, and LibreOffice doesn’t offer the compatibility I need), ScreenFlow, etc. To get all of that, I need to use a Mac, and between the Mac and Windows, I still prefer Macs so I can have a UNIX command line when I need to geek around (although Windows does now have the Linux subsystem).

 

While Linux is still a fantastic server OS, and while some users can comfortably work on Linux as a desktop OS, after the long-hard tries I’ve given it, I still don’t see it becoming mainstream enough in the foreseeable future. I wish it would just to give a solid third option in the tech industry (although I’d still likely remain on a Mac), but it doesn’t look like it. 

 

At the moment, Accordance wouldn’t be able to feasibly justify bringing Accordance Desktop to Linux, but Accordance Cloud will be a solid option once released.

 

In the event Linux Desktop ever does become mainstream, and there would be enough Accordance users running Accordance natively on Linux to justify some form of development investment on such a project, then it’s something that could be re-evaluated. For the foreseeable future though, both Linux as a desktop OS and our Accordance user base isn’t there.

[salamanderrake]

It would be nothing to port this natively to Linux as the libraries for the gui already run on Linux, one of the issues is cost, the cost to pay a Linux developer, and the license to use that gui lib on another platform. The argument about user base is always circular, and by design. If there are no apps that run on Linux, how is it supposed to get a larger user base, well, we won't put the apps on Linux because it doesn't have a larger user base. And it all stems down to getting corporations to stop believing the propaganda pushed by the marketing teams from Apple and Microsoft about the Linux desktop.

[Kristin]

54 minutes ago, salamanderrake said:

one of the issues is cost, the cost to pay a Linux developer

 

Hi @salamanderrake,

This is just a thought, but I can actually understand why Accordance doesn't do it. I am not sure how much propaganda is really at play (I know both of the companies use it, but not so much about Linux), but rather, major programs just refuse to work on Linux. Just taking Skype, for example, it just doesn't work properly on most distros, and that is just one example. I don't know any Linux advocate who does not also have Windows or Mac on a VM or another computer.

It seems, hypothetically, if Linux users were ONLY using Linux, it may be worth the developer cost, but since the Linux users are still all using VMs for other programs, it just doesn't seem cost effective for Accordance. I am not saying this is good, I think it would be great if Linux was more mainstream, but it isn't, and really won't be until major programs like Skype work on it.

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

By the way, there is an Accordance user who is looking into possibly getting Accordance 13 running on WINE/CrossOver, picking up where I couldn’t pull it off. If he can pull it off, he can post the instructions here, then I can promote them on our website. That would be one great option if he can make it happen, although I can’t promise anything yet.

 

Plus Accordance Cloud will still be an option once it releases.

 

In terms of user base, while we don’t have an app on Linux to judge actual sales metrics on Linux users buying Accordance Desktop to run on Linux, we have enough metrics from users who frequent these forums and users we’ve chatted with. While there are a handful of users interested in a Linux version of Accordance, it’s not enough to currently justify the development cost to bring it to Linux. If we were to currently attempt it, we’d be investing in development costs for an app with an overall low user base, and it would only mean fewer development costs going into Accordance for Mac, Windows, Mobile, Cloud, etc. Plus we’d have to factor in training our support teams, etc.

[salamanderrake]

@Kristin Please see this cnet article for an example. Mainly all the hype was with Steve Balmer at the helm who hated Linux and wanted to see it go away because it was seen as a competition to WIndows at the time. Linux as a desktop has come a long way, but it still has some negative stereo types attached to it that it needs to shake off.

[dandennison]

Wine support is about so much more than Linux, and I think that can unfairly characterize it.

 

Having good Wine support these days means many bugs in software are found and fixed, that pure Windows papers over. Yes, believe it or not, some "bugs in Wine" are actually bugs in the application and/or Windows themselves. Wine being a different implementation of the same APIs can expose existing app or Windows bugs. Additionally, Wine compatibility enables Mac or embedded releases without a huge amount of additional work or cost.

[Rich]

23 hours ago, salamanderrake said:

It would be nothing to port this natively to Linux as the libraries for the gui already run on Linux, one of the issues is cost, the cost to pay a Linux developer, and the license to use that gui lib on another platform. 

 

On 1/28/2023 at 12:26 PM, cim said:

If Apple can put thousands of high end applications on Unix, Accordance can do the same on Linux.

 

As a developer of 30 years on practically every major platform and environment from the gaming industry to large scale enterprise including 10 years deploying to Linux... that it's easy or "nothing to port" is simply just not true.  First, porting to any platform is a gargantuan task — and Linux with its inconsistent API libraries and support and numerous distributions is even worse.  And comparing Apple with it 164,000 employees and probably thousands of developers (and tons of revenue/profit to absorb a money-losing effort) vs a company with less than 20 (10?) employees and probably a few developers is not logical.

 

It's been the year of Linux on the desktop for 20+ years in this industry.

[salamanderrake]

The libraries on Linux are about the same libraries on any other *nix system, so I don't know where the inconsistent API libraries comes from. If it can run on Mac it can run on Linux, the problem being the extra license cost and the cost to pay a developer to port it to Linux would be the bigger issues. Porting from Mac to Linux should be easier but Apple has to do its own thing and program everything in Objective C. The mired( monstrously over population )of distros means nothing either anymore, since all a developer has to do is target one distro like what Epic, Adobe, and Valve do.

Quote

vs a company with less than 20 (10?) employees and probably a few developers is not logical

If Oaktree wanted to save costs for development and add more developers to the mix they would separate the encoding/decoding of their modules into a separate closed source library and opensource their application like what Epic did with UnrealEngine. If enough Linux users were interested it would be ported to Linux in no time, but that is another issue dealing with both the fear of opensource as a whole and the *nix community loosing its way with regards to supporting open but not free source code from corporations.

[Mark Allison]

There's a reason no major Bible software company in the world has developed for Linux. It's not economically feasible. Around 2.91% of computer users use Linux as their desktop environment. Factor in how many of those users would be willing to pay for Bible software (Accordance isn't going to give it away for free) and then factor in the continued training, technical support, and development costs for a marginal OS, and you can see why it'll never happen. 

Edited February 12, 2023 by Mark Allison

[salamanderrake]

There is already major Bible software on Linux, just not desktop Linux. https://99firms.com/blog/linux-statistics/

Edited February 12, 2023 by salamanderrake

[Michel Gilbert]

FWIW, there is a github page, “Logos Bible Software on Linux Install Scripts,” which I will try sometime. That and Accordance cloud on Linux would be great.

[Mark Allison]

7 minutes ago, salamanderrake said:

There is already major Bible software on Linux, just not desktop Linux. https://99firms.com/blog/linux-statistics/

 

Desktop Linux is what we're talking about, right?

Edited February 12, 2023 by Mark Allison

[salamanderrake]

Yes, and if it can run and be ported to Linux mobile, then it is nothing to be ported to Linux desktop.

[Mark Allison]

So, there is a major Bible software developer that has built software for Linux mobile? 

 

[Mark Allison]

2 hours ago, Michel Gilbert said:

That and Accordance cloud on Linux would be great.

 

My M1 MacBook Air with a 256GB SSD and I are very eagerly awaiting Accordance for the cloud. 

[Rich]

3 hours ago, salamanderrake said:

The libraries on Linux are about the same libraries on any other *nix system, so I don't know where the inconsistent API libraries comes from. If it can run on Mac it can run on Linux, the problem being the extra license cost and the cost to pay a developer to port it to Linux would be the bigger issues. Porting from Mac to Linux should be easier but Apple has to do its own thing and program everything in Objective C. The mired( monstrously over population )of distros means nothing either anymore, since all a developer has to do is target one distro like what Epic, Adobe, and Valve do.

If Oaktree wanted to save costs for development and add more developers to the mix they would separate the encoding/decoding of their modules into a separate closed source library and opensource their application like what Epic did with UnrealEngine. If enough Linux users were interested it would be ported to Linux in no time, but that is another issue dealing with both the fear of opensource as a whole and the *nix community loosing its way with regards to supporting open but not free source code from corporations.

 

I don't know what to tell you, but as an engineer who has authored and edited books on Mac / iOS development and done Linux development in the past, what you're saying is just not true from my experience.  Maybe if you were writing text based console tools in C or C++, but not any modern UI development utilizing the native APIs of the system...  unless you very purposefully chose very specific UI toolkits (like Qt) or cross-platform tools — which all generate very non-native platform UXs and would have required very specific architectural decisions from the very beginning.   

 

I mean, if you want truly cross-platform, build a web app...  but that of course (like all cross-platform) makes significant concessions.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Rich

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Speaking as a Bible software user and taking off my Accordance employee badge for the moment, the Logos Linux install script that installed the Windows version of Logos onto Linux ran overall decently on my test machine, although there was some functionality that didn’t work well (menus didn’t always load for me, and it crashed when I tried to use some of the analysis comparison rivers). It’s great to see a handful of Linux users doing this though.

 

Putting my Accordance employee badge back on, any Linux users who want to attempt such a similar feat with Accordance and take up the mantle where I couldn’t pull it off, if anyone succeeds in doing it, I’ll be glad to feature a forum post on it mentioning it as another option. There obviously won’t be official support from our Tech Support teams since it’s being installed in an unsupported environment, but we have some great interactions here on the forums, so you’re welcome to chat about it and see what you can do.

 

Accordance Cloud will be our official solution for platforms we don’t have an Accordance app on at the moment (once we release it).

[Michel Gilbert]

I installed Ubuntu 22 on my Surface Go, over the Windows partition. I installed BibleWorks 10 yesterday and Logos today and both work great.

So, the only thing I’m missing is Accordance. If would be great if someone could get it working with the full functionality of the desktop versus the cloud version. But at least I will have my Accordance modules in the cloud.

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

An Accordance user is looking into the potential of Accordance 13 on WINE or CrossOver. If he’s successful at it (where I failed at it), he’ll post here.