Accordance and Linux

[Kristin]

48 minutes ago, salamanderrake said:

Last time Oak Tree worked along with the wine team we ended up with the black box covering the window we got now. As soon as they found out we could use Accordance on Linux they patched it out.

 

Why did they do that? That seems bad for business.

[Shane R.]

Following this. I ran Linux as my desktop exclusively for years, and then needed some form of compatibility so I went Mac. Windows is not my cup of tea. It wouldn't take much for me to jump back into Linux.

[Kristin]

1 hour ago, Shane R. said:

It wouldn't take much for me to jump back into Linux

 

What is the advantage over Mac?

[Shane R.]

It runs great on about any computer, and it is free. I’m probably too spoiled by Mac at this point though to go back 100%. Linux is more secure in general though.

[Kristin]

Hi @Shane R.,

That is an interesting point about it running on any computer. If I had a Mac laptop, I would use that, but if I had a PC laptop, I would for sure put Linux on it instead of Windows. That is interesting that you say it is more secure. I didn't know that. I knew it was more secure than Windows, but not Mac.

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

The "black box" issue was not any business decision to "cripple" Accordance on Linux. While we don't officially support Accordance on Linux at the moment, we encourage Accordance users willing to give it a try to explore it and post their results here. I myself did that before I came to work here during my brief time when I was using Linux as my daily driver.

 

There was a graphics-rendering change in versions of Accordance after Accordance 10 that needed to be done on Windows, but it did cause the "black box" issue on WINE. I've heard from Accordance users already looking into it to see if they can chat with WINE or CrossOver about how to workaround it. While I haven't heard any update from them, they have forum access, so they can post here if they come up with a solution.

 

While I don't see myself getting to move back to Linux, I always enjoy hearing from people trying to get more software running on it, and if the Accordance user community is ever successful at getting recent versions of Accordance running on WINE, then I'd be willing to promote your success on here.

[Shane R.]

18 hours ago, Kristin said:

Hi @Shane R.,

That is an interesting point about it running on any computer. If I had a Mac laptop, I would use that, but if I had a PC laptop, I would for sure put Linux on it instead of Windows. That is interesting that you say it is more secure. I didn't know that. I knew it was more secure than Windows, but not Mac.

I have an old mac that won't accept updates any more, that would run Linux well! And Window's boxes, well, hands down, Linux goes on them. Clearly it is more secure than Windows. It is just my opinion that it is more secure than Mac.

[Kristin]

Hi @Shane R.,

Ok, thanks for clarifying. Ya, I don't think Windows even pretends to be secure anymore. Their OS looks like a literal add. Anything that comes with CandyCrush preinstalled is a huge red flag.

Anyway, Linux probably is more secure than Mac, you are probably right, but I am grateful for the level and security it provides. I do get frustrated about 2-factor though, I really hate it.

[salamanderrake]

21 hours ago, Dr. Nathan Parker said:

The "black box" issue was not any business decision to "cripple" Accordance on Linux. While we don't officially support Accordance on Linux at the moment, we encourage Accordance users willing to give it a try to explore it and post their results here. I myself did that before I came to work here during my brief time when I was using Linux as my daily driver.

 

There was a graphics-rendering change in versions of Accordance after Accordance 10 that needed to be done on Windows, but it did cause the "black box" issue on WINE. I've heard from Accordance users already looking into it to see if they can chat with WINE or CrossOver about how to workaround it. While I haven't heard any update from them, they have forum access, so they can post here if they come up with a solution.

 

While I don't see myself getting to move back to Linux, I always enjoy hearing from people trying to get more software running on it, and if the Accordance user community is ever successful at getting recent versions of Accordance running on WINE, then I'd be willing to promote your success on here.

 

The only other thing I could think of is the developer of the GUI library found out we could use it on Linux through wine and since OakTree didn't buy the License to do that they put in an obfuscation to block it, which makes more sense now that I think of it. Maybe Oak Tree can look elsewhere for a better GUI system. I mean, it even has a lot of issues on Windows and Mac when rendering. They paid the cost to port to Mac/iOS/Android(Linux) but they won't port it to Linux even though the cost to port to Mac/iOS isn't cheap, the difference being is that there is a prejudices against Linux( its not just with 3rd party library developers, there were several anti-cheat developers who were also hostile towards Linux because they believed it was easier to cheat on Linux then Windows) and Linux has no big corporation backing to financially incentivize people to port apps to Linux that have a 3rd party library price. Wine renders everything just like windows so there is no reason technically for it to not render the same as in Windows. Maybe if someone started a GoFundMe to raise the funds to port Accordance to Linux native, would Oak Tree go along with that?

Edited July 22 by salamanderrake

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Right now the issue is more than attempting to make a Linux port. Customers would expect us to back it up with solid tech support via phone and emails. Our tech support teams are already working non-stop (I even try to jump in and handle some low hanging fruit for them). Imagine if customers expected that level of support with various Linux distros, etc. Hence why it would be great if the Accordance User Community were the ones finding solutions to running Accordance on WINE and providing "support" for it here on the forums (much like we've seen with that Bible software program that starts with "L". They don't officially support it either, but there's a great community/forum effort with it on WINE).

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

I personally like the idea of Linux, and I could get a lot more use out of old hardware with it. It's not just Accordance though. There are other apps that didn't run well enough on Linux for me to use it as a daily driver.

 

I even paid $1,300 out of my own pocket buying a dedicated Linux machine once (backed with unlimited tech support) to try using Linux as my daily driver (before I came to work here), and it still didn't work for me. That's how serious I was in trying it.

[salamanderrake]

18 hours ago, Dr. Nathan Parker said:

Right now the issue is more than attempting to make a Linux port. Customers would expect us to back it up with solid tech support via phone and emails. Our tech support teams are already working non-stop (I even try to jump in and handle some low hanging fruit for them). Imagine if customers expected that level of support with various Linux distros, etc. Hence why it would be great if the Accordance User Community were the ones finding solutions to running Accordance on WINE and providing "support" for it here on the forums (much like we've seen with that Bible software program that starts with "L". They don't officially support it either, but there's a great community/forum effort with it on WINE).

 

Pretty telling when a company tells you to go somewhere else because you want to use Linux. Are we going to get a full refund since you are telling us to go somewhere else and you don't want our business?

[Sean Nelson]

1 hour ago, salamanderrake said:

Pretty telling when a company tells you to go somewhere else because you want to use Linux. Are we going to get a full refund since you are telling us to go somewhere else and you don't want our business?

Stating the fact that Accordance doesn't produce a Linux version of our software and giving reasons why is not the same thing as "telling customers to go somewhere else." Likewise, stating that we have no current plans to develop a Linux version is not cause for a refund to customers who purchased versions of our software developed for other platforms.

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

1 hour ago, salamanderrake said:

Pretty telling when a company tells you to go somewhere else because you want to use Linux. Are we going to get a full refund since you are telling us to go somewhere else and you don't want our business?

 

I didn't say any of that at all. I did not say "go somewhere else" or "we don't want your business".

 

We're still working through Accordance Cloud which will be an option for Linux users, once released.

 

We have never promised official support for Linux, and I've explained the reasons at the moment why it would not be feasible for us to promise official support for Linux.

 

I was simply encouraging the Accordance User Community to continue working through ways to run Accordance on WINE on Linux, should the community choose to, and to continue to engage here and support others through the process.  Interactions from the Accordance User Community on getting Accordance running on WINE on Linux would make for productive and useful discussions here, and while we cannot offer official Linux support at the moment, if the Accordance User Community is successful in their efforts, I'm willing to promote the posts here and praise all of your hard work and efforts.

 

 

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

I just saw @Sean Nelson's comment after I hit submit, and I echo his statements.

[salamanderrake]

18 hours ago, Sean Nelson said:

Stating the fact that Accordance doesn't produce a Linux version of our software and giving reasons why is not the same thing as "telling customers to go somewhere else." Likewise, stating that we have no current plans to develop a Linux version is not cause for a refund to customers who purchased versions of our software developed for other platforms.

There is such a thing as called not supporting a product on Linux and then there is putting up an obfuscation to block people from even using it on Linux because you believe it to be a security issue and you don't want anyone to think you support Linux now, and then later told to go use someone elses Product. No one ever asked you to support Linux, we just want you to remove the security feature that puts up the black box that stops us from using it through wine.

[Brian K. Mitchell]

@salamanderrake have you tried using Basilisk II( https://basilisk.cebix.net ) to run Accordance on linux?

Long ago I ran Accordance on my Windows 7 machine using the Basilisk Open Source 68k Macintosh Emulator.

[Sean Nelson]

1 hour ago, salamanderrake said:

There is such a thing as called not supporting a product on Linux and then there is putting up an obfuscation to block people from even using it on Linux because you believe it to be a security issue and you don't want anyone to think you support Linux now, and then later told to go use someone elses Product. No one ever asked you to support Linux, we just want you to remove the security feature that puts up the black box that stops us from using it through wine.

Accordance has not done anything to intentionally prevent the Windows version of our program from running on Linux. There is never any guarantee that a program will function correctly when run through something like Wine, and programs that may have been compatible at one point might become incompatible after an update. Since we do not develop with Linux compatibility as a goal, these issues are not entirely unexpected. As Nathan said, however, we encourage users of Linux to explore creative solutions to any compatibility issues that exist.

 

Also, while we encourage our users to share their feedback and requests on this forum, we'd ask that you refrain from assigning false motivations to us for actions that we did not take.

[Solly]

Sometimes stuff just happens in complex systems because unexpected actions create an unatticipated result. The recent CrowdStrike related chaos or the current ARM chip security flaw have nothing to do with malice or even incompetence. Complex systems are difficult to project in all possible interactions unless unlimited time is granted.

 

Murphy's Law still applies and Hanlon's Razor, in the harshest sense, may be true at times. However there are times when unintended and unforeseen interactions cause complex systems to break. 

 

To give a Biblical analogy--the tower of Siloam fell (Lk 13:4)

It is useful to be slow and cautious in placing blame!

 

Peace,

--Joseph

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

By the way, we no longer support the Basilisk II Emulator. That was for super-legacy versions of Accordance.

 

Although that was actually the first time I got my hands on Accordance before I bought my first Mac, so I remember it well.

[tlittle1]

Seeing as nobody has replied to this forum in a few months, I was wondering if anyone had any luck with running Accordance on WINE. I finally made the complete switch to Linux a few months ago, and when I need to run Accordance, I do so on a Windows virtual machine. Everything on my Linux desktop works almost flawlessly, and Accordance is the only application I regularly need that does not run. Even if there was a decently running web app, it would be enough for me to delete my virtual machine. Perhaps those of us who are tinkerers can put our collective heads together and see if we can't get this thing working!

 

On another note, not that I have a say, but in the past few years, Linux desktop usage has risen from a fraction of a percent of desktop users to ~4.5%, a massive increase despite still being the minority. If Accordance ever does decide a Linux port is a worthwhile investment, perhaps you could consider Flatpak? Flatpak apps are sand-boxed and therefore designed to get around the problems of different support for different distros. It is also the basis of both Gnome's Software Center and KDE Plasma's Discover Store. It could solve exactly the development and technical support problems that have prevented Accordance from porting to Linux thus far.

 

Just a thought!

[Rev. Dr. Timothy M. Hall]

There is an Accordance Wed App in the works, though we're not sure when it will be available. @Dr. Nathan Parkermade a post asking who would be interested in testing it...

[tlittle1]

Hi Timothy,

 

I knew about the web app development, but I must have missed (or forgotten) the option of being part of the testing group.

 

@Dr. Nathan Parker I would be delighted to test the web app when it is ready for that, if that's something you are still looking for. Having a web app would be an exciting development for sure!

 

Thanks!

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

@tlittle1 Thanks! Are you a member of our beta forums?

[tlittle1]

Hi @Dr. Nathan Parker!

 

I am not currently. I have been using Accordance pretty consistently for around 4-5 years now, but I have not been very involved on the forums until recently. If it's okay, and if you can direct me on how to become a member, I would be happy to be a part of it!