Accordance and Linux

[Jazz]

I have run Accordance on a Mac, Linux (Windows 10 in VM, slow but it worked), and now Windows 10.  I would still be using Linux if my motherboard and SSD had not broken and through a series of events and time constraints it was simpler to load Windows 10.

 

I've used Linux off and on since it was first available.  If Accordance was available on Linux natively I'd definitely switch.  I don't have the issue with Microsoft Office Products.  Virtually all of my writing is in plaintext (Markdown and LaTeX) using Sublime Text with all the necessary other software to produce Turabian (others possible) formatted pdfs from a Sublime Text build file.  I've run this same setup on Mac, Linux, and Windows.

 

The Cloud version is interesting but for me only if it is adequate to switch to Linux.  When I'm away from my laptop iOS and Android is sufficient.  Not sure but my guess is that the reason there are not more Linux Accordance users is that Accordance does not run natively on Linux.  If Accordance were native I would either switch to Linux and run Windows for two or three programs or buy another Linux machine and use my current Windows laptop for those programs.  My daily driver would be Linux.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Jazz
grammar

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Thanks for the feedback!

[iota]

+1. Just chiming in as another user looking for Accordance on Linux. Eager to see Accordance in the cloud.

[rcdeacon]

I would also be very interested! I have downloaded Linux Mint which I have used in the past.

 

Bob

[David Purton]

I'd be happy with a PWA for the cloud version of Accordance under Linux.

 

I've been pleasantly surprised by how well Outlook and Teams run as a PWA (for a given value of pleasant—no Microsoft product is that good to use). For some reason they feel a bit snappier than running in a browser tab. And they can be run more like an application rather than getting lost in a sea of browser tabs.

 

I *really* hope the cloud version is released soon!

 

@Nathan Parker maybe this is impossible, but any chance of a preview for selected users? I have no Windows or Mac machine and am stuck with Accordance 10 under Wine still…

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

@David Purton Would we need to create the PWA, or is that something the user can create?

 

We’re still working on developing Accordance Cloud. We’ll keep you and other Linux users in mind as beta testers.

[ScottDF]

@Nathan Parker, PWAs are developed by the developers, not the end users. Accordance Cloud is what Accordance is working on, not a PWA, at least to my knowledge. 

[David Purton]

Yes, Accordance would need to develop a PWA from their cloud version. But this is a realistic next step to take that could give Linux users (and everyone else) a better cloud experience and down the track potentially be a pathway to an offline version based on the same code-base as the cloud version.

 

FWIW, I notice Logos does have a PWA for its cloud version (not offline though).

Edited March 11, 2023 by David Purton

[ScottDF]

The Logos Web app is technically not a PWA as it is not installable as a standalone app. It only runs in the browser. A PWA is one path forward. It looks like Accordance is taking a different path, but the experience for what they develop will be the same for Linux or other OSes. 

[David Purton]

@ScottDF, maybe I'm mistaken, but don't all PWAs require a browser (this is certainly true for Microsoft Teams and Outlook)? Logos, Outlook and Teams can be installed as an app and hook into the OS menu system. They run in their own window rather than in a browser tab. File and URL handlers can also be registered. Microsoft is going to dump their Linux version of Teams and only provide the PWA.

 

To be sure, all Logos has done is drop a wrapper around what runs in a browser tab, so it's not taking advantage of possibilities to run offline, but it could.

 

According to Wikipedia:

 

Quote

a progressive web app is a type of webpage or website known as a web application, it does not require separate bundling or distribution. Developers can simply publish the web application online, ensure that it meets baseline installation requirements and that users will be able to add the application to their home screen. Publishing the app to digital distribution systems like Apple App Store or Google Play is optional.

 

This is what I can do with Teams, Outlook and Logos and what I think Accordance should also be able to do:

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by David Purton

[ScottDF]

@David Purton, PWAs are installable and are different from other Web apps in that feature. The Wikipedia quote is not related to that aspect. This quote from web.dev 

A PWA is Installable #
Installed Progressive Web Apps run in a standalone window instead of a browser tab. 

 

But this is all an aside. Accordance has chosen a route different from a PWA, so the point is rather moot. For the solution Accordance is working on, as long as the OS has a capable browser, the experience will be the same. 

[David Purton]

14 minutes ago, ScottDF said:

But this is all an aside. Accordance has chosen a route different from a PWA, so the point is rather moot. For the solution Accordance is working on, as long as the OS has a capable browser, the experience will be the same. 

 

I disagree. A PWA is not vastly different from running a cloud version of Accordance in a browser. But it allows me to pull it out of the browser window and run it in a way that is more integrated with how I run any other application on my OS. This is true even if the experience is the same as running in the browser. And initially the cloud version could be made available in this way with very little investment by Accordance.

 

Down the track, the PWA could be optimised to take advantage of features not available for something running only in a browser. This is the best chance there is for Linux users to enjoy a comparable feature set and comparable speed to other operating systems because the code-base is already present. (You'd still probably need the right eschatological position though…)

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Thanks for the feedback on PWA’s. I’m still learning more about them. At the moment, it’s true that Accordance Cloud is just being developed as an in-browser web app. A PWA is a good idea and a logical step forward we could consider building upon in the future. I’ll add it to our feature requests list, and after release Accordance Cloud, we can discuss it further.

[glassey]

On 2/11/2023 at 8:47 PM, Dr. Nathan Parker said:

By the way, there is an Accordance user who is looking into possibly getting Accordance 13 running on WINE/CrossOver, picking up where I couldn’t pull it off. If he can pull it off, he can post the instructions here, then I can promote them on our website. That would be one great option if he can make it happen, although I can’t promise anything yet.

 

Is there any chance that that user can say if they are still working on that or have given up? 

[Michel Gilbert]

 

Here are a few thoughts that some Linux users might find helpful.

I’ve gone back to Linux, on a decent machine with Accordance in W11 in VMWare. But as an experiment, I also tried to do as much as possible in Linux on a 2007 Dell Vostro 200, Pentium E2200, and I found that Accordance (and Logos) Android versions run well in Waydroid. You can find the apk on their Accordance for Android page (click on “server”). You sign in like normal and get most of your library. I found that Waydroid worked better in Ubuntu than Fedora, so I’m using Ubuntu. Accordance in Android isn’t close to the desktop version or even the iOS version, but you can get some things done with it.

 

The only drawback to using Accordance in Waydroid is you can’t copy and paste to the host. But if you’re an experienced Linux user, after you copy and paste to an app in Waydroid, you can find that file in you host, and open it with sudo privileges. If you make a shortcut to it, it doesn’t take much time.

 

I guess the next step for Accordance in Linux is to wait for the cloud version. But I also wonder if Accordance knows that Logos works in Linux now, which should be an incentive to hire someone to get it working in Linux too, maybe the folks at Crossover?

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

6 hours ago, glassey said:

Is there any chance that that user can say if they are still working on that or have given up?

To my knowledge, he still is working on it. He can post here if he wants to.

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

@Michel Gilbert Good feedback. Yes, we are aware of what you've mentioned. :-) 

[Mark Allison]

On 2/22/2023 at 3:51 PM, Jazz said:

Not sure but my guess is that the reason there are not more Linux Accordance users is that Accordance does not run natively on Linux. 

 

There's a reason most non-free software apps don't run on Linux. They'd all go out of business if they did.  

[jlm]

7 hours ago, Michel Gilbert said:

But I also wonder if Accordance knows that Logos works in Linux now, which should be an incentive to hire someone to get it working in Linux too, maybe the folks at Crossover?

I followed the link and found shell scripts to get Logos running under Wine. That doesn't sound like official support, and there are some warnings on that page about crashes. I'm sure Oaktree would also be happy if a third party got Accordance to run under Wine on Linux, but I doubt it would be a good business decision for them to dedicate significant resources to making that happen.

[Michel Gilbert]

Hi, Mark,

 

Many of us don’t need much beyond a web browser, office suite, pdf reader, and Bible programs. You can run Firefox, etc. natively. And as for paid apps, you can run any version of Microsoft Office from this millennium with either WinApps or playonlinux, and now Logos 10. Crossover runs a lot of paid programs very well, e.g., BibleWorks 10, Nota Bene, and Classical Text Editor. So, we can run some major paid programs without Windows 10 or 11, and without the cloud.

 

I would stay with Apple except their silicone can’t run some of my programs, e.g., Bar Ilan Judaic Library and Encyclopedia Judaica in a Windows XP VM, either in QEMU/KVM, Virtual Box, or VMWare. In fact, the only thing I absolutely need Windows 10 or 11 for is Accordance. I did try Accordance 10 in QEMU, VB, and VMWare, but it wouldn’t let me sign in. If it did, it would have served most of my needs most of the time. I think a lot of us Linux users would be happy if just one Accordance version, e.g., 10, worked like it used to.

 

I just read jlm's post, and I agree. But I wouldn't expect official support. I just wish they would let Crossover take a look and see what they could do. For example, if you install BW in Crossover, it installs all the dependencies for you, .NET framework, etc. So Acc wouldn't have to devote significant resources. And they could charge an extra fee for a bundled Crossover version, as Nota Bene does (or at least, used to).

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

What @jlm said is true about those shell scripts.

 

There are some Accordance users who are attempting to figure out what with CrossOver is causing issues with Accordance 13 or 14 running on it, and if they can, there might be some hope at some unofficial/community-driven offering (basically picking up where I failed to get it working back when I tried it). If they succeed at it, I will be glad to do what Rick was going to do if I got it working and pin a thread on it here so Accordance users can give it a try, and it might lead to some really beneficial discussions on here. That would be the best bet at the moment, as our support team wouldn't have the time to offer official support on it.

 

We're still working on Cloud as another alternative, and if Accordance users want to figure out ways to somehow "pin" it in Linux or make it easier to launch in Linux after we release it, that would be another fun exploration.

[Michel Gilbert]

On 3/18/2024 at 9:16 PM, Dr. Nathan Parker said:

What @jlm said is true about those shell scripts.

 

I’m not sure what you mean by this. I’m not a Linux expert by any means, but I could have gone into much more detail. The bottom line is that I have Logos 10 running on bare metal (depending on how you define it) Linux, Ubuntu, and it’s stable and fast. It crashes on my machine about the same amount of times as Accordance did/does on my M1 and Intel machines, which requires a simple restart like Accordance.

 

It is true that they don't officially support a Linux version. But I should have mentioned that the Logos developers helped the Linux group in an unofficial capacity. “ FaithLife is very supportive of our community effort to get Logos running on Linux through Wine. During Logos 10 development, they even reverted a change for us.” And, I remember reading other similar statements, about how Logos on Linux isn’t officially supported, but they consulted with the group as as they were developing Logos 10. I wish Accordance would do the same. Linux users don’t expect an officially supported version, but just a bit of input to get it working on Wine, or even better, on Crossover.

 

I would post a screenshot of Logos on Ubuntu, but it probably goes against the guidelines.

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

What I meant was that @jlm was correct about it being unofficial.

 

While our programmers don't have the time to do official research on Accordance on Linux, if Accordance users can figure out what specifically is causing issues with Accordance on WINE/CrossOver and what it would involve to get it going (there's a couple of users looking into this), then I'd be glad to collect and review the feedback. Not promising anything, as we have a lot of high-priority stuff on our plates at the moment.