Accordance Exchange Workspace question

[Kristin]

I was not sure if I should post this in "General" or here, so hopefully I guessed correctly. This question is for anyone who has ever worked with the Accordance Exchange Workspace "Granville Sharp (updated)".

 

On the right side it has the actual construct, and right under the "Greek construct" tab it says "True Granville Sharp Rule.  Note:  Set to search by “Clause.”"

Set search by "Clause"? Does anyone have an idea what that means? Does it change the results if you ignore that?

Take care,
Kristin

[Fabian]

Hello @Kristin

It seems this can not be saved, so you have to do it manually. 

 

Fabian

[Kristin]

Hi @Fabian,

Thank you for your response, but I am actually still kind of confused. When I open the workspace and press "Search" it runs the construct and produces results.  Are these false results before I add the restriction of the clause?

When I set it to clause like your screenshot, I get 223 results, and if I don't do that, and I press "search" and that is all, I get 224 results. I would suppose that is because two of the hits occur in one clause, reducing the result by one for the clause, but why do this?

Thank you for any clarity you are able to provide,

Kristin

[Fabian]

Hello @Kristin

 

I have definitely a bigger spectrum of hits form Vers to Book. I have a guess, but I'm not really sure. Hopefully someone other jumps in.

 

Fabian

[Kristin]

Hi @Fabian,

That is really interesting that we are getting different hits. It will also be interesting to see if anyone else has ideas (and how many hits they are getting....)

 

Take care,

Kristin

 

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Hi Kristen,

 

  I am not getting precisely your numbers but I am seeing a difference between verse scope (241 hits in 155 vs) and clause scope (238 hits in 269 verses). Clearly the clause search is finding some hits that cross verses which is certainly possible. Regardless, to compare such differences and see what is going on I usually create some comparison tabs. You can use a reference list for the returned hits in each case. Then create a difference for them in each direction.

 

So I load up the ws and run the search with scope default, which is verse. Then select all hits and right click add to reference list - then rename that new ref list tab to something helpful - GS - Verse in my case. Then change the scope to clause and rerun the search. Again select all the returned hits and create another reference tab and call this say, GS - Clause. Now you can open another tab on the original search text. So in this case NA28 Greek NT. In this tab do [CONTENTS GS - Verse] <NOT> [CONTENTS GS - Clause]. Call this tab "Vs not clause". This will show you hits found by the verse scoped query that were not found in the clause scoped one. Then I do the reverse. Open another NA28 Greek NT tab and do [CONTENTS GS - Clause] <NOT> [CONTENTS GS - Verse]. Call this tab "Clause not vs". This will show you hits returned in the clause scoped query but not in the verse scoped one.

 

  You are now in a position to examine the differences between the queries. I do this sort of comparison fairly frequently when trying to figure out what is going on in searches.

 

  So what's going on here. Basically GS constructions should occur within a clause so you don't actually want to search across clauses as you will get spurious results. Taking a look at one of the two Vs not Clause results you will see it is Acts 2:9.

 

“Πάρθοι καὶ Μῆδοι καὶ Ἐλαμῖται καὶ οἱ κατοικοῦντες τὴν Μεσοποταμίαν, Ἰουδαίαν τε καὶ Καππαδοκίαν, Πόντον καὶ τὴν Ἀσίαν,”
(Acts 2:9 Novum Testamentum Graece (New Testament in Greek))
https://accordance.bible/link/read/GNT28-T#Acts_2:9

 

Now in this case while you might argue that the article applies to all the nouns GS strictly structured does not cover three substantives. It's been a while since I looked at GS so I don't know if more than two substantives were covered at all in his paper.

 

The second hit in vs not clause is

 

1John 3:18 Τεκνία, μὴ ἀγαπῶμεν λόγῳ μηδὲ τῇ γλώσσῃ, ἀλλ’ ἐν ἔργῳ καὶ ἀληθείᾳ. This is a much more clearly erroneous hit.

 

Clearly the intervening ἀλλ᾽ shows the γλώσσῃ and ἀληθεία are not directly related in the way described by the GS rule.

 

You can examine the other hits and compare further. There are in fact many instances in the Clause not vs case. I haven't looked at the them but the two scopes clearly give very different results. And clause would be what you want.

 

One further comment on difference comparison. Sometimes in the reference lists or search tabs for the comparison you have the hit verse but you really also want to know what the construct search highlighted in the verse. To do that you can add the search criteria for the construct to the difference tab like this :

 

[CONTENTS GS - verse] <NOT> [CONTENTS GS clause] <AND> [LINK Greek construct]

 

This will give you the difference with the hit words highlighted.

 

Thx

D

[Kristin]

Hi @Λύχνις Δαν,

Thank you so much for the detailed explanation! I really appreciate it and will follow the steps you laid out.

Take care,

Kristin

[Jonna Schmidt]

Thank you for your help. I just "re-read" what Granville-Sharp's states, and the "leading noun" must have an article -- and the second noun does NOT. SO: I ran my search using the "Granville Sharp GNT28" from your website, and I have a few questions:

a. Why doesn't the search include Titus 2:13?

b. Why doesn't the search include 2 Peter 1:1

c. WHY does the search include 2 Peter 1:2 -- which is not really a Granvill Sharp construction?

 

Is there another construct that might be better?

 

[Jonna Schmidt]

Granville Sharp GNT28.accordGranvill greek construct.accord

 

The Granville-greek construction file uses GNT-Washingtonius, so I understand why that file's search does NOT include the Epistles.

 

Is there something better?

[Kristin]

Hi @Jonna,

Those are old files. There is a "Granville Sharp (updated) workspace which uses the GNT28 and it includes the whole NT.

[Jonna Schmidt]

GOT it: I included the Granville Sharp GNT28.accord

 

That file searches the entire GNT  -- but somehow: Titus 2:13 and 2Peter 1:1 are left out of my search results

[Kristin]

Hi @Jonna,

To be totally honest, I can't remember. I had looked at these verses months ago and had concluded that the so-called "Rule" did not apply for either passage, but I had concluded this based on the theology of the specific books. As far as why they do not apply on a grammatical level, I can't remember. I can try to see if I can find my notes on the matter, but hopefully someone here will have a better explanation.

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Hi @Jonna

 

For the purpose of clarity of discussion here is the construct from Granville Sharp GNT28.accord :

 

 

Here are the verses you asked about:

 

Titus 2:13 προσδεχόμενοι τὴν μακαρίαν ἐλπίδα καὶ ἐπιφάνειαν τῆς δόξης τοῦ μεγάλου θεοῦ καὶ σωτῆρος ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ,

 

There are two possible places in this verse where you might expect a hit :

    τὴν μακαρίαν ἐλπίδα καὶ ἐπιφάνειαν

        this fails because μακαρίαν intervenes between τὴν and ἐλπίδα and the first not INTER in the construct forbids an intervening adjective.

    τοῦ μεγάλου θεοῦ καὶ σωτῆρος

        this will fail for the same reason, μεγάλου intervenes.

2Pet. 1:1 ¶     Συμεὼν Πέτρος δοῦλος καὶ ἀπόστολος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ τοῖς ἰσότιμον ἡμῖν λαχοῦσιν πίστιν ἐν δικαιοσύνῃ τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ,

    There is only one possible places that you might expect a hit here:

        τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος

            this fails because the second not INTER precludes an intervening pronoun, ἡμῶν here.

2Pet. 1:2 χάρις ὑμῖν καὶ εἰρήνη πληθυνθείη ἐν ἐπιγνώσει τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ Ἰησοῦ τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν.

    Here also these is only one possible case:

        τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ Ἰησοῦ

    And this one should be found by the search above and it is. There is case, number and gender agreement, and there are no prohibited intervening words.

 

Thx

D

[Jonna Schmidt]

tHANK YOU SO MUCH