Anyone else becoming disillusioned with Accordance?

[KCarmanIII]

First off I want to start by saying I love this product. But lately it seems that users like myself (pc/android) have been put on the back burner for the time being. it just seems like far more effort is put into the mac and ios product. Is this something that will change in the future?

[ScottDF]

I'll weigh in here. I am one of those who has in no way become disillusioned. I came from BW and use the software for Biblical research and understanding. It had the tools I required and performs every function I need very well. It's toolset is larger than BW's and everything works quite well, all told. Technical support has been prompt, thorough, and effective. The forums (which are not tech support) are on whole useful. I'm quite confident that the vast majority of the user base is in this situation. There are a small, but significant number of people who have needs beyond the original, core functionality of the software. These are the users who drive development. Development is always behind the vision of these users and therein lies the strain. But for those of us who bought a tool that does what we bought it for, our happiness and that of clams is pretty similar. 

[ukfraser]

Not me.
 

As a user, my understanding is that 14 will be the same and run on both windows and mac. 
android was the last platform to be supported so there is some catching up to be done to bring it in line with ios which is still some way behind the full fat version. (Being an early adopter of android on an htc phone, I moved away from android coz i got fed up with the operating system updates not being available for mine or my wife's phones so i couldnt use updated or new apps.)
 

but having bought other products from larger market leading organizations in different sectors and then having a bug which made the product unusable for two years or else they take the decision not to support it and its no longer works on the latest operating system, i think the accordance team are doing a good job and im certainly not disillusioned.
 

Each tuesday morning there is eager anticipation wondering if the resources i want have been added to the store and on offer which is usually followed by disappointment as they have not yet been added. But i have had some great bargains over the years.  So Mildly impatient, but then patience is a virtue! so just think of the benefits we are getting on soooooo many levels. 
 

;o) 

Edited August 2, 2022 by ukfraser

[Michael Hunt]

I'd hold a similar view to @ScottDF. I see Accordance as a capable and mature software tool on most platforms (Android being the one platform that has stagnated/clearly is less developed than others). For me the power of accordance has to do more with the library I have built up over time than the software itself. I am looking forward to the release of 14 that I hope will see fixes for some outstanding bugs I know about (dark mode on windows).

[Diatheke76]

I just hope they don’t go out of business 

[KCarmanIII]

i understand your viewpoints. I guess I wouldn't say disillusioned. the Windows version does everything I need I just wish the UI was a little more modern looking. Android is where most of my frustrations lay. I didn't really have a choice when it came to software as accordance is what I received through my seminary for my MDiv program. I understand that there has been some turnover in the android development department, but I think it's been almost a year since the last android update. This is frustrating to me as I'm constantly on the go and rely pretty heavily on my phone and tablet.

[dmwebb6]

I am not disillusioned but frustrated with the Android development. I love Accordance and use it almost daily.   I use Accordance on both PC and Mac.  The only thing that really frustrates me with the desktop app is the syncing which I understand will be fixed in Accordance 14.  The android app is a different story.  It will be a year this week since the last update.  Not only is it not updated, but questions on the forums about updates are rarely given.  I understand the turnover but we have been told for a good while that notes and other features are coming, but we have seen little progress.  

[Daniel L]

Countless bugs don't get fixed. Popular feature requests are left out to dry. (Why not use a bug/issue management system that everyone can see?) Glacial development speed.

 

It's sad to see how many users are so docile. They've been conditioned to expect unresponsiveness and to embrace subpar development. A company may think that flatterers make for an ideal user base, but this is hurtful to the company's overall health and growth.

 

Does the management stop to consider how many more customers/fans they would have if they would accept the existence of flaws (i.e. not "shoot the messenger") and act to meet the challenges to overcome them? Please look up "opportunity cost."

[Dan Langston]

So much of a user's experience is related to workflow and habits. At the same time,  we have been conditioned to expect parity everywhere. For example,  I do not default to mobile near as much as others. If all you use is mac, pc or iphone, then maybe you are quite pleased with Accordance and have a higher toleration for the hard work of software development. If android  is your major interface, then you are having a different experience. I have even asked google "What's the Best Bible software" and get "I can't help with that". 

Accordance's measured, fierce insistence on presenting Scripture to us in a variety workflow options, raises the bar of our expectations.  Maybe it's an unintended consequence.  The product is SO GOOD that we find ourselves to be SO IMPATIENT.

 

[Steven S]

2 hours ago, Daniel L said:

Why not use a bug/issue management system that everyone can see?

 

+1 for this.

 

It would also be helpful for module corrections to be tracked publicly. Sometimes I forget if, upon encountering an error in a module I use frequently, I've already submitted a correction. I know the module development staff has a lot of work to do, and sometimes I hesitate submitting corrections that I may have already submitted because that's ten minutes I'm taking away from them that could be used to do something more productive than track down an already-fixed correction (or, even worse, one that was rejected for whatever reason and will never be fixed).

[R. Mansfield]

13 hours ago, Diatheke76 said:

I just hope they don’t go out of business 

 

Not going to happen. The company is fully in the black.

[ScottDF]

It is often the case that open source projects use open bug tracking systems, but seldom the case that closed source companies engage in that, e.g., Microsoft, Apple, etc. 

[c. stirling bartholomew]

9 hours ago, Dan Langston said:

So much of a user's experience is related to workflow and habits.

 

Absolutely right. Been using Accordance on a Mac since before 1.0 and have no complaints. I does what I need done and does it well. It was "light years ahead of the competition" when it was first released. I am not complaining about it and currently using it every day. BTW, the most significant advancement from a linguistic perspective is Robert D. Holmstedt's Hebrew Syntactic Database.**

 

**postscript: I don't have it. I have read about it and know the framework.

Edited August 2, 2022 by c. stirling bartholomew

[mhanel]

I don't think users are soft on Accordance. Jump around to any piece of software and even the big ones. The same criticisms are true of these large companies, if not more so. Google, Microsoft, other large Bible software companies. It's all the same. There's more pressure (read: sales) for putting out more features than there is fixing every bug (if that were even possible). Accordance may have bugs and short-comings, but I'm much more productive with it than without it. I hope the next version brings more features and more fixes, but it will also introduce new bugs (it's inevitable). 

[Accordance Enthusiast]

On 8/2/2022 at 6:18 AM, KCarmanIII said:

First off I want to start by saying I love this product. But lately it seems that users like myself (pc/android) have been put on the back burner for the time being. it just seems like far more effort is put into the mac and ios product. Is this something that will change in the future?

 

I fully agree with you. I am not in any way against Accordance, but as a Windows user I have noticed that the Windows version is always last to start working or to be updated. The Targums wordmap is now finally working well on Windows for which I am very thankful. But it was more than a year later than the Mack version.

 

When I upgraded to Accordance 13, I could not even do simple Hebrew searches without numerous problems. Searching for more than one Hebrew Lemma was not even possible. I reported about 5 serous bugs and reverted back an earlier version. Months later these bugs were finally fixed. Thank you!

 

But right now you can check my other posts and there are still about half a dozen bugs that are bothering me that have not yet been corrected.

 

And the Accordance videos are nearly always done with the Mack version to show off, often long before the features actually start working in windows. Past examples include the Targums wordmap, LXX vs. Hebrew searches, Automatic construct searches, accent searches, searching for more than one Lemma, Letters searches, etc.

 

Thankfully many of these have been corrected, though months or years later than the Mack version.

 

I am really hoping for better performance in the upcoming version 14 for WINDOWS. I know you test it very well for Mack, but not always for Windows. 

 

Shalom.

[Andrew Patterson]

I am responding as: a relatively new Accordance user (<2 years); a former software support agent; a Windows, iOS, and Android user; and a generally gracious Christian.

• Accordance is a very advanced software system. It is not only feature-rich, it is competitively so. They do not stunt development out of laziness.
• Accordance is a well-established software system. It has been around for decades. From experience, I know what that means: because of back-compatibility, some of the code and modules are outdated (e.g., all the non-Unicode stuff). That's normal. The developers have clearly been working to update cleanly (i.e., fixing problems without accidentally causing others). Software QA Testing takes a long time.
• Accordance developers listen well. I issued dozens of Program Modification Requests when I worked in software, and the suggestions were mostly ignored unless something was horribly wrong for multiple users. We certainly did not allow users to directly make requests. Accordance is extremely gracious in that regard.
• Accordance developers are equitable. As far as I can tell, currently, the Windows application is just as functional as the Mac application, except the syncing feature and dark mode...and maybe some advanced Hebrew searches. That's impressive considering how "new" the Windows version is (comparatively). The Mobile apps are necessarily less functional than the desktop versions, but they're decent for what they are, especially the iOS app. Android is--objectively--a lousy system to program for; the huge spectrum of devices and compatibility issues make it a nightmare, and I'm surprised they were even able to write an app for Android. That said, it's only been out for a couple years, so catch-up is still happening somewhat. Furthermore, now all changes must work across FOUR different platforms, slowing down development even more.
• Accordance developers are triage masters. There are a million module and feature requests, yet they carefully work though them, not only picking off the urgent and important ones, but every once in a while, grabbing little ones that have been almost forgotten.

Yes, I know we all have modules and features we'd like, but the developers have lives too. They work insanely hard to produce for us and they have not forsaken us. I long for Accordance 14, but I know it's worth the wait...maybe there's a sermon illustration in that 😉 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Andrew Patterson

[Rich]

Not disillusioned with Accordance... it serves me as well today as it did last year and the year before and the nearly 20 years before that.  Wow.  Think about that — software from a non-Forbes 500 company (and the resources that come along with it) that has lasted over 20 years and still keeps providing incredible value!  

 

Before someone says I'm "docile" or a "flatterer" — there are plenty of things I wish the Accordance folks would release already (real cloud syncing and a much more full featured iPad version for starters).  That said, I also don't always get what I want (or in the time I want it) with any company's software or hardware release cycles.  I also wish Apple would release a "real" multi-window solution for iPads, Microsoft would finally reconcile / fix the insanity that is the inconsistency of their OS (with literally four UI paradigms within many of their apps/tools reflecting the OS they originally were released in), and the gaming industry would once again release a game without micro transactions.     ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Accordance Enthusiast]

3 hours ago, Andrew Patterson said:

currently, the Windows application is just as functional as the Mac application, except the syncing feature and dark mode...and maybe some advanced Hebrew searches.

 

Yes, now after about 3 years of waiting for the updates.

 

The point is that we are hoping for better support for the Windows system in the future.

 

If accordance 14 is checked the same way as 13, it means that Mack users will have a working version 14 by the end of the year, and we will have to wait till 2025 - 3 more years before we can expect Accordance 14 to be virtually as good on Windows as on Mack.

That was very poor with 13, so I'm hoping for something better with 14. 

 

Why should it have taken about 3 years longer for Windows?

 

If there is a reason, and if you are not going to improve the Windows versions faster with version 14, 

 

PLEASE let us know if the Windows version will be full of bugs and that we'll have to wait for a couple of years to see most of them corrected.

 

Maybe you should also add to the Accordance website that the Windows version will generally be the months or years behind the Mack version.

 

The bottom line is that Accordance on Windows is GREAT, but usually not as great as the claims and the videos show.

 

Shalom

 

[ukfraser]

2 hours ago, Anonymous said:

If accordance 14 is checked the same way as 13, 

If you havent already, request to be a beta tester!

[Andrew Patterson]

9 minutes ago, ukfraser said:

If you havent already, request to be a beta tester!

How? Where?

 

[ukfraser]

I am not aware of a formal process but im sure someone from accordance will correct me if there is. 
update: see the accordance 14 thread.

 

Originally there was a request thread for windows beta testers. from memory, If you are added you will receive an nda by email i seem to remember and once confirmed you will see a new section appear in the forum.

 

they may even have a nbta by now!

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by ukfraser

[Erhard]

On 8/3/2022 at 1:11 AM, Andrew Patterson said:

On 8/3/2022 at 1:01 AM, ukfraser said:

If you havent already, request to be a beta tester!

How? Where?

 

Contact Rick Mansfield directly - He said so in another thread

[cweber]

I am a new user and only been using Accordance for a few weeks. I will note that when I looked at Logos I was displeased with the experience, so much appeared for show and advertising. I'd rather functional software over pretty any-day. Accordance fits my simple needs very well and I consider myself a beginner in Biblical studies and research with such a system.

 

My experience has initially been hot and cold. When it didn't crash I was excited. Whenever it crashed I was frustrated and it crashed often.

 

"Technical support has been prompt, thorough, and effective" [ScottDF]

I agree with this statement. Support have been very patient as I fumbled along clicking things outside of intended use and crashing the program. Eventually I annoyed them when protesting why Development cannot regression test more for Windows and I was then kindly sent to the forums to repent

"I know you test it very well for Mack, but not always for Windows" [Anonymous]

I am undecided about this. I know a Mac user and their Accordance crashes too, but apparently I pushed mine to its limit more than they have and they have used it for a long time. I develop software (everything from coding for Unix to these days of SQL Azure Synapse etc) and also as an ex. electronics engineer my personality type is to investigate and touch everything

 

"much of a user's experience is related to workflow and habits" [Dan Langston]

I agree. I have since watched the training videos and customised Accordance. My experience now is significantly better. Crashes are far fewer and I live with them. When used as suggested, Accordance does a fairly good job. I still trip it up, but I live with it because in the scheme of things it is minor now. I still would love to see stability improved, especially for new users, but it is no longer as bad as when I first started using it. Perhaps I should re-frame what it is to be considered stable. Our experiences bias our opinions.  

 

I still find limitations and lament that 'My Tools', specifically editing imported books, are not more capable. Other than this it is great. I even considered changing to a Mac and if Accordance ever decide Microsoft Windows is too painful I will move across. I dislike Microsoft products these days, every customer is a beta tester

 

My conclusion, I am no longer swaying towards being disillusioned. Instead I am becoming comfortable with the tool and necessary workflows (to avoid crashing).

[pataanaa2]

I understand that there has been some turnover in the android development department, but I think it's been almost a year since the last android update. This is frustrating to me as I'm constantly on the go and rely pretty heavily on my phone and tablet.

[pataanaa2]

I agree with this statement. Support have been very patient as I fumbled along clicking things outside of intended use and crashing the program. Eventually I annoyed them when protesting why Development cannot regression test more for Windows and I was then kindly sent to the forums to repent 
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