MT-LXX Parallel search and pie charts

[Derek.o.martin]

I'm trying to figure out if it is possible to do a search on a Hebrew or Greek word and do a pie chart analysis of all the terms it is translated to or from, respectively.

 

All I can seem to get after a search (either for a Hebrew term directly or using a MERGE from the Hebrew text for instance) is a Hit Graph.

 

Anyone else try to do this?

 

Thank you much!

Derek

Edited July 18, 2022 by Derek.o.martin
typo fix

[mgvh]

If I understand your request correctly... And results are always imperfect going between Hebrew MT and Greek LXX due to grammar, variant texts, etc. (The process I describe below works quite well for Greek to/from English.)

1. Open up your BHS text
2. In command line, right click > Enter Command > Text
3. In the box that opens, choose LXX
4. Enter the word (e.g., κυριος) or tags or forms ... (I've never had occasion to use Advanced settings, so leave those blank)
5. ENTER to run search
6. Use Analytics > Pie Chart
7. Default is to display lexical forms of the target, which is what I think you want
8. 

For more precise results, check out the Concordance or the Analysis Bar Chart or Analysis Graph

[Derek.o.martin]

That's interesting...  It doesn't seem to use the MT-LXX Parallel at all but rather just the interlinear tagging?

 

I tried the reverse of what you suggest.  Opened the LXX and did a search using the text in BHS (in this case אלהים).

 

The green slice is αυτος, the dark blue one is κυριος and the dark pink one is και.  I expected θεος, κυριος and even αυτος but the others I found surprising.

 

There are some other surprising results as well though.  The total number of hits found this way was 5339.  But, if I open the MT-LXX Parallel and do a MERGE search from a word search in BHS for אלהים (which is supposed to include all forms) I only get 2792 hits, which seems like a big discrepancy.

 

It seems to be dicing up and separately including in the pie chart each individual word in each hit.  For instance a translation of "אלהים" to "ὁ θεὸς" is generating both a "ὁ" and a "θεὸς".  Is there a way to get a pie slice that has each phrase hit rather than each word?

[Derek.o.martin]

Also, thank you for taking the time to think about it and respond!

[Derek.o.martin]

Hey, it's actually much easier than I was making it...

 

You just search a word in BHS (or LXX I suppose.  I'll try that next.).   As an example, I search for אלהים in BHS.  In the Analytics,  I select Pie chart, then "Intertext" in the analytics pull down, and the LXX Ralfs as a text.  I can choose Inflected (to separate ο Θεος from Του Θεου from ο Θεος σου) or Lexeme.

 

Thanks!

Derek

[Derek.o.martin]

The other direction also works.  κυριος shows up 8298 times in the LXX Rahlfs. That is translated from Hebrew words like this:

 

[mgvh]

Using the Intertext is a good option. Due to the difficulties aligning Hebrew and Greek, you will get different results.

The left chart used the TEXT command with the Hebrew MT searching for κυριος in the LXX.

The right chart simply searched for κυριος and then uses the Intertext option.

 

Here's another example. I'm searching for αντιλημψις and seeing what Hebrew words it translates.

There are 17 instances of the word in the LXX which the right chart indicates, but note that using the text command only found the 6 instances where there is a Hebrew word that it actually is translating. It appears, then, that that searching for the word you want in the source language and using Intertext gives more complete results.

 

[mgvh]

And working from Hebrew, looking for the word וֹזב¯1  

Left chart using TEXT command; Right chart searching for Hebrew word and then using Intertext.

335 hits using TEXT, only 211 using the Hebrew search. It seems that the difference is larger due to the LXX missing some passages and because the way words are aligned, the word in Hebrew gets matched sometimes to 2 or 3 words in the Greek.

 

[Derek.o.martin]

Thanks mgvh for the insights!

 

It would be good to understand what the fundamental differences are between what the tool is doing in those two examples.  I just want to be carefully precise in my searches and resulting word studies.

 

Thanks again,

Derek

[robrecht]

On 7/18/2022 at 9:22 AM, mgvh said:

If I understand your request correctly... And results are always imperfect going between Hebrew MT and Greek LXX due to grammar, variant texts, etc. (The process I describe below works quite well for Greek to/from English.)

1. Open up your BHS text
2. In command line, right click > Enter Command > Text
3. In the box that opens, choose LXX ...

 

When I try this method, the box that opens does not include LXX as an option.

 

On 7/18/2022 at 8:36 PM, Derek.o.martin said:

Hey, it's actually much easier than I was making it...

 

You just search a word in BHS (or LXX I suppose.  I'll try that next.).   As an example, I search for אלהים in BHS.  In the Analytics,  I select Pie chart, then "Intertext" in the analytics pull down, and the LXX Ralfs as a text.  ...

 

And when I try this method, the word "Intertext" is grayed out in the menu. I have the Rahlf's LXX tagged and the Biblia Hebraica tagged texts. Any ideas why this is not working for me? Not sure if I have the MT-LXX Parallel text in Accordance. I used to have the MT-LXX in BibleWorks. Maybe I need to add for Accordance also? But Derek said above it's not necessary. I do have Accordance for PC, if that matters.

 

Thanks in advance!

Edited January 26, 2023 by robrecht

[Solly]

2 hours ago, robrecht said:

 

And when I try this method, the word "Intertext" is grayed out in the menu. I have the Rahlf's LXX tagged and the Biblia Hebraica tagged texts. Any ideas why this is not working for me? Not sure if I have the MT-LXX Parallel text in Accordance. I used to have the MT-LXX in BibleWorks. Maybe I need to add for Accordance also? But Derek said above it's not necessary. I do have Accordance for PC, if that matters.

 

Thanks in advance!

Perhaps your issue is similar to the need of the MT-LXX tool. See this thread:

 

https://forums.accordancebible.com/topic/34354-lxx-rahlfs-tagged-not-cross-highlighting/#comment-170647

 

—Joseph

[robrecht]

Thanks, Joseph. Yes, I also read that thread and added the MT-LXX parallel text to Accordance and it worked. I was just coming back to report this and saw your response.

 

See screenshot below. I prefer the bar chart as it is easier to read the smaller number cases than in a pie chart.

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by robrecht

[robrecht]