mt-lxx Using MT-LXX with MT-ETCBC?

[David Christensen]

Background Information and Context

I am trying out Accordance for original language searching, and I was inspired by this blog (http://bibleandtech.blogspot.com/2018/03/finding-hebrew-words-translated-by.html) which cited this forum post (https://forums.accordancebible.com/topic/23369-lxx-vs-mt-lxx-search-results). They illustrated how one could conduct an LXX search in Accordance and then, if one had the MT-LXX module, they would be able to generate an analysis that listed each Greek cognate and what Hebrew terms they rendered (see esp. Joel Brown's comment).

 

After reading that entire thread above, I saw how Ben Gladd needed the HMT-W4 module for his LXX to MT search to work. I do not have that module; instead, I have the MT-ETCBC module and apparatus that came with my initial Accordance 13 collection. I have the MT-LXX and MT-LXX2 Parallels (the latter just purchased in an attempt to fix my issue but to no avail).

 

Steps to Recreate my Search

1. I open a tagged Rahlf's LXX tab (LXX1).
2. I search Words for +αἶσχος and receive 264 results.
   1. Note: I run into the same problem if I search for just αισχυνω.
3. These I display by selecting the pie icon on that tab, and choosing Analysis under the "Word Count Totals" context sub-menu.
4. Then I select the gear and customize display in order to pull over the "MT-LXX Lex" item described in the aforementioned thread.
5. However, I do not have any MT-LXX draggable items in the left-hand column (image below). For this reason, I am unable to recreate the analytical output described in the links above. The pie chart process runs into the same problem (i.e., no MT-LXX filter options).

 

 

 

My Questions

• Am I unable to use the MT-LXX and MT-LXX2 modules because I do not have the HMT-W4 module?
• Or, am I doing something wrong?

 

Thank you everyone for your help!

 

 

[mgvh]

Hmm... maybe there is something about having MT-ETCBC instead of the HMT-W4.

When I replicate your steps, I have an "Intertext" option I can drab over that show up as MT-LXX Lex.

[mgvh]

Try this instead:

• Open up your ETCBC text
• Use the TEXT command and choose LXX Rahlfs
• Search for Root αισχος
• Your search should be: [LXX1 +αισχος]
• Open Analysis > Customize display
• Do you have option for Intertext now?

[David Christensen]

16 hours ago, mgvh said:

Try this instead:

• Open up your ETCBC text
• Use the TEXT command and choose LXX Rahlfs
• Search for Root αισχος
• Your search should be: [LXX1 +αισχος]
• Open Analysis > Customize display
• Do you have option for Intertext now?

 

Brother, Thank you for your help!

 

When I attempt to follow your steps, I cannot get past step (2). LXX Rahlfs is not an option for me.

 

[Fabian]

Are your modules all up to date?

[David Christensen]

18 minutes ago, Fabian said:

Are your modules all up to date?

 

Valid question. When I attempt to check for updates, Accordance hangs:

 

I tried this on two different internet connections. The update window does not close or respond if I click stop. I have to end the program from Task Manager.

 

When I check the Easy Install panel, there are some parallel modules that are not installed, and that will not install (even though they claim to):

 

I can download and install these ad nauseum, and they will not (1) show installed on this list or (2) appear in the Parallels section of my library.

 

Perhaps one of those (either of the OT parallels) is needed for my MT-LXX to function properly, so this could be the source of my problem. Do I need to full reinstall?

 

I tested logout and log back in before attempting to install these or update any, and ran into the same set of issues.

 

[Fabian]

Are you on 13.3.2?

 

No this Parallels should have nothing to do with the MT-LXX.

 

I guess someone other has to respond @Tech Support

 

[David Christensen]

1 hour ago, Fabian said:

Are you on 13.3.2?

 

No this Parallels should have nothing to do with the MT-LXX.

 

I guess someone other has to respond @Tech Support

 

 

Yes, 13.3.2.

 

General Updates for Thread

 

I completely uninstalled (including deleting the entire AppData folder). I reinstalled 13.3.2 and all my modules (the parallels successfully installed this time!).

 

I attempted the same scenario I began this thread with, and I have the same issue: no "MT-LXX Lex" or "Intertext" options.

 

I also attempted the alternative steps suggested by @mgvh, but LXX Rahlfs is still not an option for me when using the TEXT command in the MT-ETCBC-A BHS text tab.

 

So, I have ruled out (1) login issues, (2) install issues (though there apparently were some), and (3) those parallel modules did not affect the initial issue.

 

Lingering Questions

• Does the MT-LXX (or MT-LXX2, because I have both) require that I have the BHS text HMT-W4?
  • Based on Ben's situation mentioned initially, it would appear so, which sad.
  • The verbiage on the MT-LXX2 page does not indicate a specific Hebrew text is required, and the link to the manual is broken, so I cannot check whether that detail was specified therein.
  • I search the help from within Accordance, and I found the following:
    • 
    • Based on that, I would say that the MT-ETCBC-A BHS module does not qualify as an "appropriate" resource even though it is a Hebrew tagged text. Perhaps it is a difference in tagging database or method.
• In the event that the MT-LXX2 depends upon an older Hebrew tagged text, would it make sense to provide that text for those that purchased the MT-ETCBC-A if they purchase the MT-LXX2?

Edited January 7, 2022 by David Christensen
add heading

[mgvh]

That is odd ...

If you open your library, is LXX Rahlf's there and can you open it?

 

Also try: Utilities > Easy Install

and see if maybe it just wasn't installed.

 

Otherwise, call tech support.

[David Christensen]

6 minutes ago, mgvh said:

That is odd ...

If you open your library, is LXX Rahlf's there and can you open it?

 

Also try: Utilities > Easy Install

and see if maybe it just wasn't installed.

 

Otherwise, call tech support.

 

I believe so, unless there's a different LXX module I'm unaware of.

 

[Fabian]

51 minutes ago, David Christensen said:

 

I believe so, unless there's a different LXX module I'm unaware of.

 

Thats the correct one. 

[Λύχνις Δαν]

On 1/6/2022 at 12:47 PM, David Christensen said:

My Questions

• Am I unable to use the MT-LXX and MT-LXX2 modules because I do not have the HMT-W4 module?
• Or, am I doing something wrong?

 

Thank you everyone for your help!

 

 

I believe the answer to the first question is that the Analysis tab does not currently permit use of Hebrew texts other than the HMT-W4 text. I notice there is a pulldown menu when I drag the Intertextuality tag to set up the display - it however only shows HMT-W4. And I have ETCBC, AF and BHS Stuttgart. However, you can use the MT-LXX for things like [MERGE] commands from non-HMT-W4 texts and that works. I've just tried BHS and ETCBC.

 

Regarding why Ralhfs is not an option in the TEXT command, this is I believe because you have the BHS Hebrew (Apparatus, ETCBC) text open. Switch to the BHS (ETCBC) text and it does work.

 

And finally there are two MT-LXX products, the MT-LXX Interlinear Database which simply supports interlinear use, and the Hebrew Masoretic and Septuagint Parallel which offers support for the things you are trying here. I assume you have the latter but just checking.

 

Thx

D

[David Christensen]

11 hours ago, Λύχνις Δαν said:

I believe the answer to the first question is that the Analysis tab does not currently permit use of Hebrew texts other than the HMT-W4 text. I notice there is a pulldown menu when I drag the Intertextuality tag to set up the display - it however only shows HMT-W4. And I have ETCBC, AF and BHS Stuttgart. However, you can use the MT-LXX for things like [MERGE] commands from non-HMT-W4 texts and that works. I've just tried BHS and ETCBC.

 

Regarding why Ralhfs is not an option in the TEXT command, this is I believe because you have the BHS Hebrew (Apparatus, ETCBC) text open. Switch to the BHS (ETCBC) text and it does work.

 

And finally there are two MT-LXX products, the MT-LXX Interlinear Database which simply supports interlinear use, and the Hebrew Masoretic and Septuagint Parallel which offers support for the things you are trying here. I assume you have the latter but just checking.

 

Thx

D

 

Thanks for your help!

• I thought that would be the case (alas)!
• Interesting that it works with one but not the other.. I do not have the text only BHS because it didn't come with the collection I purchased—only the MT-ETCBC-A came with it. Since that is the more expensive of the two, it does seems odd that it lacks functionality the other has.
• I have both MT-LXX and MT-LXX2. The former came with my initial collection, and I purchased the latter in order to leverage the analysis (as I tried to explain in the initial post).

Since I have purchased the MT-LXX2 which cannot be fully leveraged without the HMT-W4 (another $70), it looks like I'll probably return the MT-LXX2 module for a refund. I don't need the functionality that badly.

 

Thank you all!