Henk de Waard Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Hi all, Please accept my apologies if this is a stupid question; I'm still quite new to Accordance. I've now had the same problem a number of times: when I search for a Hebrew verb in a specific stem, Accordance tells me that there are no results, even though I know for sure that the verb does occur in the relevant stem. See, e.g., the picture I've attached: Accordance cannot find the verb YNQ in the hifil stem, while this verb does occur in the Hebrew Bible in the hifil, as can be seen from Lam. 4:3, displayed in the picture. No doubt, I'm doing something wrong--but what? Could someone please give me advice? Many thanks in advance! Kind regards, Henk de Waard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristin Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Hi @Henk de Waard This does not really solve your problem, but I have noticed something similar to this too. I was in the Hebrew text and wanted to see all the results of a word as it appeared exactly in a verse, so I searched the inflected form and Accordance said there were no results, which is obviously not true since I had just seen it. So I am interested in the answer to this too. On a side note, since you are new I would just like to mention that if you follow the thread (top right) you will be notified when people reply, while if you do not follow it you will not be notified unless someone tags your name. (I don't know if there is an exception if you start the thread, there may be). Kristin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Hi Henk, Your search is looking for ינף followed by a verb in the hifil. What you need is to apply both criteria to the word. So search for : ינק@ [verb hifil] and then you will see you Lam example and several others. Thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristin Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Hi @Λύχνις Δαν, I unfortunately can't remember the specific verse, but I copied a word from the Hebrew text, opened the Hebrew text as a new tab, set it to words and pasted what I had just copied. I pressed enter and it claimed are no results. Given what you wrote, do I need to do more than just copy and paste when working with Hebrew? Thanks for any ideas you may have, Kristin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Hi Kristin, It will depend on exactly what you copied and what search was being done. I suspect your case is different from the OP here. My guess is that you copied an inflected form with attached clitics and then pasted that into a lexical search. That will fail because the attached endings - pronouns etc, not inflections themselves - are considered separate words. As such you need to separate them in the search string. If you instead did a letters search it would likely find it. If you can post an actual example can comment further. Beyond that I think you will want to install a Hebrew keyboard mapping so you can type the Hebrew directly if you haven't done so already, or use the Accordance in-built one. That's what I did above. Thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristin Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 24 minutes ago, Λύχνις Δαν said: ...My guess is that you copied an inflected form with attached clitics and then pasted that into a lexical search. That will fail because the attached endings - pronouns etc, not inflections themselves - are considered separate words..... Hi Λυχνις Δαν, I unfortunately can't remember the specific word or verse, but I can confirm that your theory is correct that I copied a word with endings. The reason I did is because I wanted to see how many times the word appeared with the same vowels and same ending. I didn't need the number of hits for the word, but this specific form, but it did not work. So I put an = in front of it, but it still said there were no hits. If I am understanding you correctly, trying to find a word as it appears exactly with endings and vowels is not able to be done with the search bar. Is that correct? Concerning typing in Hebrew, I do have the Hebrew keyboard, and typing words is not an issue as long as I don't need to type vowels. Since I really dislike typing Hebrew vowels, and the specific word I was looking for had several vowels I just copied and pasted it. Sincerely, Kristin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 You can search for a Hebrew word as it appears in the text - that is, a set of characters delineated by spaces. You would use a Letters search. It has been enhanced a bit in 13.2 but I have not yet played with it in the new update. But try that first and see how it goes for you. If I recall correctly it used not to handle vowels - ignored them - nor wildcards. Regardless it should get you close. Thx D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk de Waard Posted July 16, 2021 Author Share Posted July 16, 2021 4 hours ago, Λύχνις Δαν said: Hi Henk, Your search is looking for ינף followed by a verb in the hifil. What you need is to apply both criteria to the word. So search for : ינק@ [verb hifil] and then you will see you Lam example and several others. Thx D Many thanks--really helpful! I should have known this, as in BibleWorks (where I've recently come from) it worked more or less the same, with that at sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Simpson Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 By far the easiest way to do this @Kristin and @Henk de Waardto right click and search for inflected in the drop down menu. Have you tried that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristin Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 Hi @Ken Simpson Thank you for your response, and that makes sense, but I am having some difficulty with it. If I right click and click the inflected form, the final ם of the word is chopped off and treated separately. I think this is probably user error, but I am not sure what I am doing wrong. I will attach a photo. Thanks, Kristin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Simpson Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 (edited) Ok, try selecting all that you want by dragging and then selecting “letters” in the drop down… what selecting the inflected does is look for that particular inflection of melekh, and the inflected form of mem following, which is obviously including the min prefix. My mistake. I didn’t look at what you were trying to,search for closely enough. does that produce the result you are looking for? = will force accordance to find that particular lexeme - in any inflected form. To force a letters search, try surrounding your letters string with “ “ it’s much easier to use the dropdown where you can. Edited July 17, 2021 by Ken Simpson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Simpson Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 (edited) In accordance the prefix and the suffix, are treated as seperate “words” - whatever that means …. Edited July 17, 2021 by Ken Simpson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristin Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 Hi @Ken Simpson Thank you for the clarification. I tried the "letters" and that worked. Also, if you do not mind, could you clarify what "inflected" means in Hebrew? I thought inflected meant searching for the exact form of the word searched for, and in Greek, this seems to be the case. If I search from ἠγάπησεν in Jn 3:16, as a random example, and search "inflected" it will only show verses with ἠγάπησεν, which makes sense. However, if I click "inflected" with Hebrew words, the the vowels are different and the suffix apparently is also. Given this, what does "inflected" mean in Hebrew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 28 minutes ago, Ken Simpson said: In accordance the prefix and the suffix, are treated as seperate “words” - whatever that means …. Except you use the new "Letter Search". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk de Waard Posted July 17, 2021 Author Share Posted July 17, 2021 10 hours ago, Ken Simpson said: By far the easiest way to do this @Kristin and @Henk de Waardto right click and search for inflected in the drop down menu. Have you tried that? Thanks, Ken! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Simpson Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 18 hours ago, Kristin said: Also, if you do not mind, could you clarify what "inflected" means in Hebrew? I thought inflected meant searching for the exact form of the word searched for, and in Greek, this seems to be the case. If I search from ἠγάπησεν in Jn 3:16, as a random example, and search "inflected" it will only show verses with ἠγάπησεν, which makes sense. However, if I click "inflected" with Hebrew words, the the vowels are different and the suffix apparently is also. Given this, what does "inflected" mean in Hebrew? Ahh - what goes on in the mind of a programmer.... Well, that was the point of my cryptic comment above 'seperate “words” - whatever that means'. In Hebrew the prefixes and suffixes have a life of their own in a way. We treat the non-prefixed non-suffixed inflected lexeme as a word (it's what you would look up in a lexicon after all. For Hebrew, for an inflected search it will look for the exact string of consonant irrespective of the vowel points. From the Help (you really should look at the included help, it is really good - award -winning hear). Accordance normally ignores any accents or vowel points, upper case, and ending forms. Adding an equal sign (=) immediately before a lemma or inflected form specifies that all of these should be included in the search. Cantillation marks are always ignored except with a character search (see below). Have a look at file:///Applications/Accordance.app/Contents/Resources/Accordance%20Help/Default.htm#topics/06_braa/search_for_words_in_tagged_text.htm?Highlight=%22exact%20forms%22 Have a read of the help topic in the include app help files at Biblical Research and Analyses > Work with Grammatically Tagged Text > Work with Hebrew Tagged Text > Hebrew Searches 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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