Accordance 13 not viewing Apocryphal Daniel etc properly

[Hrugnir]

I've spent about 45 minutes today trying to find the additions to Daniel in Accordance, and especially to view it properly with all the different translations and commentaries I have available to view it. So I loaded my Swedish Bibel 2000 translation, NRSV, LXX in both Greek and translation, as well as the Eerdmans commentary.

 

It turns out, however, to be an incredibly frustrating experience to find texts like Susanna, Bel etc which have now been excluded from the main text of Daniel. This means that it is hard to find the actual differences between the Greek and Hebrew texts. Now, I understand why this causes problems, but as Accordance seems to work now, it seems incredibly hard to even navigate to these parts of the book.

 

After much trouble, I managed to find the Susanna story in NRSV after the Letter to Jeremiah. I know for a fact that in the print version of Bibel 2000, this text exists. It will not show up, however, when I try to add it as a parallel to NRSV. The Brenton translation also does not work as a parallel, while the Rahlf's LXX and NETS versions do. Also, the Oxford commentary comes up as a related commentary, but not the Eerdman's commentary.

 

When I finally did find the text at all, I learned that it seems to be called "Sus", but when I try to search for this as a verse reference, nothing comes up.

 

Please fix this.

 

Best regards,

Peter Berntsson

[Mark Allison]

Peter,

 

So sorry for your frustration. A few things that might help make things easier:

 

1) at the top of your library there's a search window. At the left of the search window is a magnifying glass. You can click the magnifying glass and select "Books:Texts". Then, when you search for a book like Susanna, all the Texts in your library with that book will show up. Double-click on any of the books to open the book to that location.

2) You can open a Text, then from the menu bar select "Display—>List all Book Names". You'll be able to see which books are contained in the Text and the order in which they appear. You can click on the hyperlinked name of a book in the list to open the Text to that location.

3) The NRSV has a secondary module that contains some of the alternate texts. It's called "NRSV2" in your library.

4) I don't think Bibel 2000 contains the Susanna story. If I'm wrong, someone will let us know :-)

Edited March 3, 2020 by Mark Allison

[Hrugnir]

Peter,

 

So sorry for your frustration. A few things that might help make things easier:

 

1) at the top of your library there's a search window. At the left of the search window is a magnifying glass. You can click the magnifying glass and select "Books:Texts". Then, when you search for a book like Susanna, all the Texts in your library with that book will show up. Double-click on any of the books to open the book to that location.

 

2) You can open a Text, then from the menu bar select "Display—>List all Book Names". You'll be able to see which books are contained in the Text and the order in which they appear. You can click on the hyperlinked name of a book in the list to open the Text to that location.

 

3) The NRSV has a secondary module that contains some of the alternate texts. It's called "NRSV2" in your library.

 

4) I don't think Bibel 2000 contains the Susanna story. If I'm wrong, someone will let us know :-)

 

Hi!

Thank you for the quick reply.

 

1. Thank you, that is a good tip to learn!

2. Yes, I used this as well, and I managed to navigate a bit better using this list now.

3. That's good to know!

 

4. I suppose here is my primary remaining complaint: I use Bibel 2000 as a physical product every day at work, and I am looking at the Susanna story in the print version right now. It is also available online here if you need it: http://www.bibeln.se/las/2k/till_dan

 

It has been part of Bibel 2000 from its release, and the Accordance version seems to have every other text except the additions to Esther and Daniel. As such, it looks like an oversight in making the Accordance resource. It should be updated to the same standard as the English resources. 

 

And speaking of English resources, the Brenton translation contains the stories, but it is interfoliated within the standard/MT version of Daniel, meaning Daniel 3 has 98 verses. It's a bit strange that this LXX translation works entirely differently than the NETS translation in Accordance.

The Eerdmans commentary also has commentary for the relevant sections of the text, but all the links to the resources it's commenting seem entirely broken, while the Oxford resource seems to work just fine.

 

Best of luck!

Peter

[Mark Allison]

4. I suppose here is my primary remaining complaint: I use Bibel 2000 as a physical product every day at work, and I am looking at the Susanna story in the print version right now. It is also available online here if you need it: http://www.bibeln.se/las/2k/till_dan

 

It has been part of Bibel 2000 from its release, and the Accordance version seems to have every other text except the additions to Esther and Daniel. As such, it looks like an oversight in making the Accordance resource. It should be updated to the same standard as the English resources. 

 

And speaking of English resources, the Brenton translation contains the stories, but it is interfoliated within the standard/MT version of Daniel, meaning Daniel 3 has 98 verses. It's a bit strange that this LXX translation works entirely differently than the NETS translation in Accordance.

The Eerdmans commentary also has commentary for the relevant sections of the text, but all the links to the resources it's commenting seem entirely broken, while the Oxford resource seems to work just fine.

 

Best of luck!

Peter

 

Thanks for making us aware of these issues. I'll contact the publisher of Bibel 2000 to see if they can send us the missing books. I'll take a look at Benton, but I think it's set up like the print edition (I could be wrong about that). We'll definitely fix the links in Eerdmans. It's an older module and some of the links aren't as comprehensively tagged as our newest Tools.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Mark Allison

[Fabian]

 It's a bit strange that this LXX translation works entirely differently than the NETS translation in Accordance.

 

I have seen that too. Some chapters has a different amount of verses than the LXX1. I contacted the publisher about that, ca 4 months ago, he is aware of this since then. 

 

I just started to digitize the Charles Thompson LXX Translation. I have done some drafts, I'm in the process to find the best way to do it. https://thetencommandmentsministry.us/ministry/charles_thomson/The one you found on as HTML here are not very useful. because the verse numbering is only outside the colons and it has to adjust nearly for every verse. There are below PDFs with verse refs before the text which makes it much better. If you want to digitize it I would not say NO:-)

 

Tischendorf has also done an LXX https://books.google.ch/books?id=N6HYAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA1&redir_esc=y&hl=gsw#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Edited March 3, 2020 by Fabian

[Hrugnir]

Thanks for making us aware of these issues. I'll contact the publisher of Bibel 2000 to see if they can send us the missing books. I'll take a look at Benton, but I think it's set up like the print edition (I could be wrong about that). We'll definitely fix the links in Eerdmans. It's an older module and some of the links aren't as comprehensively tagged as our newest Tools.

 

Thank you for looking into it!

 

If it helps speed up the process, I might add that the Logos resource for Bibel 2000 has Greek Daniel and Esther showing without any issues...

 

But since I prefer using Accordance, I would like it if the Accordance resource was the superior one!

Edited March 4, 2020 by Hrugnir

[Fabian]

Susanna accord://read/SWED2K2#Dan_13,1

 

Bel accord://read/SWED2K2#Dan_14,4

 

PrayerAzarja accord://read/SWED2K2#Dan_3,1 

 

It seems this is the same case I mentioned 

Fabian

[Fabian]

BTW it depends how the publisher made the versification. Some use Daniel 14 and some Bel. You have to check it with the print edition. Maybe L has it done as Bel, to have it in parallel with the other books. Same as Accordance do it now.

[Fabian]

On 3/3/2020 at 12:23 PM, Mark Allison said:

4) I don't think Bibel 2000 contains the Susanna story. If I'm wrong, someone will let us know 🙂

See my posts above.

 

Mark, may you replace the "non" parallel texts to the normal Bible and not to the "Bibel 2000 Parallel Texts" as Bel, Sus. Only let PrayerA aka Dan 3 in the Parallel. In may opinion this would make sense and it would be more consistent to the other Texts. 

 

May you check other Bibles too, to see if not parallel Texts (Bel, Sus) is in the Parallel module. See CEB parallel (Bel and Sus). It seems Accordance have to make a decision how to handle this. 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Fabian

[Hrugnir]

On 5/31/2021 at 2:22 PM, Fabian said:

BTW it depends how the publisher made the versification. Some use Daniel 14 and some Bel. You have to check it with the print edition. Maybe L has it done as Bel, to have it in parallel with the other books. Same as Accordance do it now.

Yep, this seems to be the issue. This non-uniformity between translations makes it quite difficult to use, though - I would want NRSV, LXX, LXX translations, Vulgate etc all be able to find these same verses and to scroll side by side without hassle. It would probably be better to just have a standard way for Accordance to handle these exception cases. I'm not really qualified as a programmer, so I can't give a good solution. But maybe giving these extra stories, such as Susana and Bel, their own "book name" across all translations would be most convenient. Right now, comparing different translations of books like this is quite a hassle.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Hrugnir