Mac Toolbar Appearance

[Teddy24]

13 hours ago, A. Smith said:

For clarity, THIS is what I'm talking about. I realize that some of this is essential. But there has got to be a better way. 

I agree, We should be able to hide the search tab 

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

3 hours ago, Teddy24 said:

I agree, We should be able to hide the search tab

 

I'll file feedback on this one as long as it doesn't make Roy sad. :-) 

[Joe Weaks]

17 hours ago, A. Smith said:

solid inch and a half of space

I don't see what wasted space you're talking about.

Maybe mark up your screen shot?

[A. Smith]

1 hour ago, Joe Weaks said:

I don't see what wasted space you're talking about.

Maybe mark up your screen shot?

Wasted space isn't the right description. It is the whole cluster of tabs, search bar, the next bar with the context slider, live click, etc, then another bar below that for the text pane title. I recognize these are all important, if not essential elements. I'm suggesting that they can somehow be rearranged and/or condensed/hidden (even auto hide) so that this space can be used for the actual text we're working with. In my typical workspace, I've got two of these large clusters of tab/info/search bar clusters. That is a LOT of space on the screen. I'm not a designer so I don't have a lot of suggestions for how it can be done. But, again, I'm suggesting that this space an somehow be better used by combining and/or hiding some of this info. For example, the not-so-recent Safari tab update where the address bar and tabs are now combined. Or some sort of system whereby clicking or hovering over a pane or title bar would reveal some of these titles and/or features (live click, TOC, context slider, all that stuff on the bar below the search bar). If these two ideas were somehow combined, that would be at least three rows of 'bar space' that have been recovered for our actual texts--the stuff we really want to see. 

 

I use accordance, logos, and Paratext. All three of these apps suffer this challenge. I think some creative thinking could help update the interface and give us back some valuable screen space. 

[A. Smith]

Honestly I think something like Safari tabs could go a long way towards a solution. That, plus the auto hide type feature of iOS, where the text can basically fill the pane until you tap the screen which brings search and other features.

 

In a safari-type design, the active tab could expand to reveal the search box and text drop-down. Then the TOC, context slider, live click,  interliner, parallel options and whatever else could be optionally shown or hidden like the instant details window. This would condense three 'bars' into only one. Combined with an auto hide feature like iOS (which, admittedly, I can't quite imagine how to implement in a non-touch interface), would reclaim a lot of screen real estate. 

Edited August 10, 2023 by A. Smith

[Daniel L]

I too would like to see the UI improved and optimized. For now, let me remind folks that from the Window menu, we have Reading Mode, which goes full-screen for the active pane. Also, there is Slide Show, which is like full-screen showing all panes in a zone, but only one zone can be open for it to work. (Disclaimer: I'm using v. 13 on Windows, so maybe it's a bit different.) Note the keyboard shortcuts for these for convenient toggling.

[darrylmy]

On 8/9/2023 at 4:00 PM, Teddy24 said:

I agree, We should be able to hide the search tab 

 

If this is implemented I would like to put in a request that it would only be an option. I'm clearly in the minority here, but I think the UI is pretty efficient given the depth of Accordance. Personally, I use all the information in the aforementioned area when using Accordance. I frequently rename my tabs in my study and am always cycling through them; also constantly verifying or changing my parameters in the search window while taking note of the total search count that is displayed, or being able to immediately turn off recycling to retain my search results, or even adding additional parameters; also adjusting the context based upon my search and noting the verse counts; and also verifying which texts I am dealing with in each of the search panes (especially when cycling through differently configured tabs) or moving them down to easily arrange them.

 

Now, to be fair, I am working on a 16" MBP with the screen resolution set to "more space", so the relative space may give the visual impression that it's taking up less space than it is (I also frequently have the toolbar collapsed or use "small icons" if expanded [one of the reasons I have not started using 14 yet, so I understand the desire to use the mimmim amount of space necessary]). However, my point is that I think the UI is actually making an efficient use of space given the amount of information and controls that are available at a glance (besides the other various controls that are immediately available which I did not mention). If the UI of Accordance can be streamlined without a loss of it's current immediately available functionality, great! But I agree that as A. Smith said, "these are all important, if not essential elements."

 

@A. Smith, regarding your screenshot, could you possbily use the commentaries in a zone to the side of your "Texts" zone rather than beneath it? Here is a similar set up, but with some different modules, but the same concept (I even shrunk down the window to approximate a smaller screen). If using stacked zones, I would agree that it takes up quite a bit of space, but it may be more a limitation of the screen size rather than Accordance (of course unless using an external monitor where the relative space would be less when stacking zones).

 

[A. Smith]

2 hours ago, darrylmy said:

 

If this is implemented I would like to put in a request that it would only be an option. I'm clearly in the minority here, but I think the UI is pretty efficient given the depth of Accordance. Personally, I use all the information in the aforementioned area when using Accordance. I frequently rename my tabs in my study and am always cycling through them; also constantly verifying or changing my parameters in the search window while taking note of the total search count that is displayed, or being able to immediately turn off recycling to retain my search results, or even adding additional parameters; also adjusting the context based upon my search and noting the verse counts; and also verifying which texts I am dealing with in each of the search panes (especially when cycling through differently configured tabs) or moving them down to easily arrange them.

 

Now, to be fair, I am working on a 16" MBP with the screen resolution set to "more space", so the relative space may give the visual impression that it's taking up less space than it is (I also frequently have the toolbar collapsed or use "small icons" if expanded [one of the reasons I have not started using 14 yet, so I understand the desire to use the mimmim amount of space necessary]). However, my point is that I think the UI is actually making an efficient use of space given the amount of information and controls that are available at a glance (besides the other various controls that are immediately available which I did not mention). If the UI of Accordance can be streamlined without a loss of it's current immediately available functionality, great! But I agree that as A. Smith said, "these are all important, if not essential elements."

 

@A. Smith, regarding your screenshot, could you possbily use the commentaries in a zone to the side of your "Texts" zone rather than beneath it? Here is a similar set up, but with some different modules, but the same concept (I even shrunk down the window to approximate a smaller screen). If using stacked zones, I would agree that it takes up quite a bit of space, but it may be more a limitation of the screen size rather than Accordance (of course unless using an external monitor where the relative space would be less when stacking zones).

 

That isn't actually the issue. Tough I could rearrange things if I need to. The issue is rather that it seems an unnecessary use of space. Arranged as you have it doesn't change the space used; you've got the same bulk of tabs, search bar, title, etc above the text as I do. So the issue is not that I can't see enough of my commentaries. If I need that I can zoom in on a zone or whatever. The issue is just that I don't believe the space is being used effectively and there are more modern solutions which could be implemented. FWIW, I just got a 28" monitor from Italy (Samsung) that makes everything plenty spacious. But I sometimes work from a small laptop screen, too.  Here is my total layout, just for grins:

 

So, again, the issue is not that I can't see what I need but rather that there are better, more modern ways to provide these functions now. Honestly, If you compare it to the old internet explorer, it isn't much different: 

 

And compare this to a modern web browser like Safari (Edge isn't much better than IE in terms of bulk: 

 

I don't think many would argue that Safari has cut out essential function. They've simply changed how it's displayed. I think Accordance can do something similar. Less of a personal issue of needing space and more of a global constructive criticism of the UI.

[A. Smith]

31 minutes ago, Donovan R. Palmer said:

With the larger monitors and screen sizes we now use, I am not as sensitised to screen usage.  I think two other factors to include is workflows and intuitiveness.  The more you bury things, the more friction in workflows and the less intuitive that it is. Up to this point, I generally thought that Accordance struck a pretty good balance, particularly after they implemented the full screen format after starting with more of a windowed approach with a resource palette.   

 

With all this said, I am always open to new and innovative ideas when it comes to UI design!

 

It is a compromise, for sure. And I wouldn't care if I were in the states and still used a large dual monitor set up. But as it is, I spend about 70% of my time on a smaller laptop monitor, with logos, accordance, and Paratext open. All three apps generally require several texts displayed at the same time. In that setting, any space that is not immediately useful becomes immediately apparent! But this is probably not a typical use case and I recognize that. I'm also extremely . . . uh . . . stubborn . . . and refuse to simplify my workspaces and I want to have all the texts and tools immediately there. Oh what a wretched man I am!

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Thanks for the feedback! If we were to ever implement an option to hide/streamline some of the search info in panes (and I'm not saying either way on that one), it would definitely be an option. Each pane being its own search window has been a fundamental aspect of Accordance since version 1, so we'd tread extremely carefully about making major changes there.

 

With that said, we're always open to how we could explore how to both "modernize" and "streamline" the UI while remaining true to our fundamentals. Feedback and discussions such as this are super beneficial for us to ponder.

[Teddy24]

On 8/14/2023 at 5:24 PM, A. Smith said:

That isn't actually the issue. Tough I could rearrange things if I need to. The issue is rather that it seems an unnecessary use of space. Arranged as you have it doesn't change the space used; you've got the same bulk of tabs, search bar, title, etc above the text as I do. So the issue is not that I can't see enough of my commentaries. If I need that I can zoom in on a zone or whatever. The issue is just that I don't believe the space is being used effectively and there are more modern solutions which could be implemented. FWIW, I just got a 28" monitor from Italy (Samsung) that makes everything plenty spacious. But I sometimes work from a small laptop screen, too.  Here is my total layout, just for grins:

 

So, again, the issue is not that I can't see what I need but rather that there are better, more modern ways to provide these functions now. Honestly, If you compare it to the old internet explorer, it isn't much different: 

 

And compare this to a modern web browser like Safari (Edge isn't much better than IE in terms of bulk: 

 

I don't think many would argue that Safari has cut out essential function. They've simply changed how it's displayed. I think Accordance can do something similar. Less of a personal issue of needing space and more of a global constructive criticism of the UI.

Can you send me your accordance layout? I really like that layout a lot 

[darrylmy]

@A. Smith, ahhh, I understand more clearly now by the full contexst of your screenshot.

[A. Smith]

5 hours ago, Teddy24 said:

Can you send me your accordance layout? I really like that layout a lot 

Like the workspace file? I think if you don’t have all the modules I have open that’ll cause a problem, won’t it?

[A. Smith]

On 8/14/2023 at 9:56 PM, Nathan Parker said:

Thanks for the feedback! If we were to ever implement an option to hide/streamline some of the search info in panes (and I'm not saying either way on that one), it would definitely be an option. Each pane being its own search window has been a fundamental aspect of Accordance since version 1, so we'd tread extremely carefully about making major changes there.

 

With that said, we're always open to how we could explore how to both "modernize" and "streamline" the UI while remaining true to our fundamentals. Feedback and discussions such as this are super beneficial for us to ponder.

Yes. 1000x yes. I do NOT mean to remove functionality and especially to remove the search bar from

each pane! Only to consider other ways of arranging/displaying the info, including possibly an autohide type option. 

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Great feedback!

[Teddy24]

17 hours ago, A. Smith said:

Like the workspace file? I think if you don’t have all the modules I have open that’ll cause a problem, won’t it?

Yeah and not that i know of. It will just replace the module that i don't have with a module that i do have. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Teddy24

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Usually it'll give an error message if you don't have all the modules. We originally had a feature in 14 where Accordance would just crash instead, but we ended up fixing it since users didn't care for it. :-)

[A. Smith]

Bible Study.accord

@Teddy24

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Keep the feedback rolling on the toolbar. We don't have an ETA on any specific changes, but we're collecting feedback and looking at how we could further tweak this.