alternative to highlight ideas

[Kristin]

 

Working on a translation, as I work on specific words, I obviously need a way of knowing what I have worked on and what I have not.

 

For the past few years I had been using the highlights with different highlight styles representing different verb tenses, etc. The concept worked very well as it simultaneously let me know what I had worked on and also told me a little of the original language before even looking at the text.

 

Then the highlights became corrupted. So I went through and fixed the highlight, spending weeks to do so.

 

Then the highlights became corrupted again, and so I again took a “break” from my work to fix the highlights…. then it happened again.

 

Then I heard v.14 was coming out, so I did the pre-order since I had thought v.14 was going to be addressing the highlight corruption and note corruption bugs. As it turned out, however, v.14 turned out to be about something other than fixing known highlight and note bugs.

 

I now fear that the time the developers need to work on v.14 issues means that the highlights and notes will just always be unreliable, and it has occurred to me that I need a new system.

 

I have thus been trying to think of a highlight-free way of marking what I have worked on concerning translation, yet despite trying to think of another solution for months, I keep using the highlights since I literally can’t think of any other way to keep track of what I have worked on in the text. However, the past few weeks it has occurred to me that I really truly do need to find another way, since sometimes the corruption is obvious, but sometimes the corruption draws highlight lines giving the impression I have worked on a word, when I actually had not, and it creates confusion.

 

Does anyone have any ideas of how I can practically keep track of my work? I can't do it through notes as those have obviously had corruption issues as well.

 

Thank you for any ideas anyone has.

 

Kristin

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

We have it on our list to look into Notes and Highlight issues (although it may take a bit). How much Bible text are you talking about “working through”? 

[Sam Freney]

Suggesting a brand new feature to do what you're asking might be tempting fate, but possibly the phrasing tool?

 

I'm using a combo of highlights and phrasing to 'save' my work on passages, and allow me to glance and see several parts of my analysis very quickly. It helps me get back to what I've worked on relatively smoothly. It's a bit idiosyncratic as to the rules I follow for when I indent certain things, but that's why I find it useful.

 

Nathan: speaking for myself on how much I'm 'working through' doing markup like I've pictured: this week, Mark, Col, 1 Thess; a couple of weeks back, several minor prophets. (I've paused working with highlights on OT for the moment given already-mentioned highlight issues, plus teams I'm working with in the next couple of months are more focussed on NT translation.)

[Kristin]

Hi @Nathan Parker,

I am relieved to hear that the note and highlight corruption is already on the list to be resolved, hopefully it is also actively being resolved, not just on a list though, as these issues have gone on for years (they both started with v.13. I did not have note or highlight corruption on v.12). Concerning what I am working on, I am translating the entire Bible, both OT and NT. My highlights are in the Greek, Hebrew, and English, and there has been extensive highlight corruption in all three languages. I cannot say one language suffered more.

@Sam Freney,
Thank you for the phrasing idea. I am not sure if it would work for my specific situation since I am dealing with words, not just lines, but I appreciate the idea and will keep it in mind how I could perhaps use it until the highlight corruption is fixed.

[Sam Freney]

What's your translation, @Kristin? Into English, or something/somewhere else?

 

(I'm a translation consultant in Australia, so interested personally and professionally!)

[Kristin]

Hi @Sam Freney,

I am translating the OT and NT into English from the Hebrew and Greek.

[darrylmy]

13 hours ago, Kristin said:

Does anyone have any ideas of how I can practically keep track of my work?

 

Hi @Kristin, for me, I keep all my work in individual plain text files (using markdown) to avoid the inevitable situation you describe. Having lost content myself as well (not specifically in Accordance), I adhere to what has been called, "software agnosticism".  That is, all my notes need to be accessible in (almost) any software and so I have chosen to use txt/md files. The thinking is not so much to mitigate any current software problems (such as the the corruption you describe, though, it will help with that!), but really, to ensure that my thinking is accessible for my future self in the next 10-20 years. I don't want to expect any software company to be around then, no mater how well they are currently doing. I just don't know. But the likelihood of accessing txt/md files in 10-20 years has a relatively high degree of probability.

 

Applied to your situation. You could simply take notes on individual words and other exegetical insights and link to those notes by building yourself a running table of contents to track your work (e.g, based upon verses, pericopes, etc.). In the screenshot below I have done something similar, but it also allows me to keep track of other articles I have processed in addition to my own translation and exegesis (e.g., "Σ The Role of Chiasm..." is a journal article, which itself links to multiple other notes).

 

 

Additionally, this note on Hebrews also has other content on the structure of Hebrews, the warning passages, specific topics, etc. (not pictured). Tracking your translation in a manner similar to this will also help you with translation itself, as you will be reminding yourself about the context each time you return to you main note (by seeing an overview of all your other work).

 

Hope that helps.

[c. stirling bartholomew]

Quote

I adhere to what has been called, "software agnosticism".

 

I experienced the pain in technical publications four decades ago. Adobe PDF format became the universal language of publication. I read hundreds of language related academic publications in a year all  PDF files. Some day PDF format will go away. Probably not in my lifetime. I tried to export Isaiah 24 from HMT-T yesterday to print it hard-copy. Gave up on it. Wasn't worth wasting time with all the problems.  

[Kristin]

Hi @darrylmy,

Thank you for your ideas and screenshots, and I agree completely of the important of software agnosticism. Unfortunately I learned that the hard way through seeing my notes corrupted, but I have nonetheless learned the concept.

I think I am doing what you are suggesting to a degree. My actual translation is in a txt format. Then my notes and self-created dictionary is in Mac Numbers. Then every few months I make a backup of my dictionary by exporting it to both a PDF and Excel sheet.

The issues I am having, however, I don't think can be replaced by a txt or Numbers file. There are really two problems.

1) The issue of marking what I have done in the text. I have done this by marking the text with highlights. this is just a random example, but lets say I wanted to translate יָּ֣רָץ as "run" in the Qal, as a random example. So then in my Numbers dictionary I state this as such, then in Accordance on the text I would mark a highlight whenever that word appeared in the Qal as I would go through the the text in my txt document translation. Thus, if the Qal highlight was under the word, I would know I had addressed that word in my txt document, but if there was not a highlight, it would mean I had not touched that verse yet. So obviously the highlights becoming corrupted as created confusion since it has given the impression I have looked at a word when I had not or visa versa. If I am understanding correctly, the method you are referring to is just concerning translation and a dictionary, but would not indicate anything on the text itself, if I am understanding correctly. I can't realistically just base it on memory which verses I had translated or not since a lot of these words occur literally thousands of times, and I need a record of what I have looked at or not. So the highlights would be perfect if they didn't corrupt (like had been the case back in v.12).

2) The other issue is the Notes. I like the notes since they are in parallel and have hyperlinks to other verses, but it has been a true headache and pretty unacceptable that we aren't able to export them. I think the method you are using is a Notes replacement too, I think, which I can do in Numbers. The problem is, however, that a Numbers file, or Markdown for that matter, doesn't run in parallel or have live hyperlinks opening another Accordance pain. Are you just not using the Notes in Accordance?

Thanks for the screenshot and ideas,

Kristin

 

 

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

I was going to suggest something software agnostic where you could export some biblical text to a word processor then do your highlights, checking off in there. Not sure if you’d want to attempt exporting that much text outside of Accordance though. 🙂 

 

Short-term, we’re working on the incoming bug reports for Accordance 14, as well as we need to get enhanced syncing (14.1) and Cloud out the door that we promised customers. However, improving reliability across user file formats is on our list to address. Some of it will likely take some time, as these are some deeper and more complex projects to work on. We definitely have goals to look into it though.

[Kristin]

8 minutes ago, Nathan Parker said:

was going to suggest something software agnostic where you could export some biblical text to a word processor then do your highlights, checking off in there. Not sure if you’d want to attempt exporting that much text outside of Accordance though

Regarding the idea of doing highlights outside of Accordance, I am not against work, as I am more concerned about reliability. That said, how could I do highlights outside of Accordance? (On a side note, apart from the fact that I am not sure how to even do that, I would like to mention that it is frustrating that the solution by an Accordance rep is to use a third party program, as Accordance is frankly pretty expensive for it to not work properly).

 

11 minutes ago, Nathan Parker said:

Short-term, we’re working on the incoming bug reports for Accordance 14, as well as we need to get enhanced syncing (14.1) and Cloud out the door that we promised customers. However, improving reliability across user file formats is on our list to address.

I would like to additionally raise two obvious points I hope Accordance is aware of:
1) Concerning what was "promised" to customers, please remember, that as a "customer" I remember that resolving the bugs of highlight corruption and note corruption was promised to be resolved years before anyone had even heard of v.14.
2) Regardless of whether someone is on v.13, or v.14, stability takes priority, so "improving reliability" is obviously more critical. The fact that this is a top priority is evident by the fact that a lot of people on v.14 actually downgraded back to v.13 because v.14 was not reliable.

[darrylmy]

54 minutes ago, Kristin said:

Thank you for your ideas and screenshots, and I agree completely of the important of software agnosticism. Unfortunately I learned that the hard way through seeing my notes corrupted, but I have nonetheless learned the concept.

 

You're welcome; and sorry to hear that. but glad you now have a solution that is working for you.

 

56 minutes ago, Kristin said:

There are really two problems.

1) The issue of marking what I have done in the text.

 

The approach I would take (from my method) would be to bring the text into its own note for translation. I would then build another note to act as my personal lexicon (your Numbers file) and link to individual words from there. However, in the entry for the word, such as רוץ in your example, I would define the word under the qal according to different usages (e.g., like in HALOT). I would then start building out each usage with references as I am translating. The equivalent of which, would be adding a column in your spreadsheet to record the biblical references where that word is translated "run" according to its different usages. That way, your tracking is tied to your data, rather than the highlights in Accordance. Your workflow would then be to look at your spreadsheet to see if you translated that word, rather than a highlight in Accordance. To me, the highlight is equivalent to recording the verse reference (and possibly also the inflected form) in your spreadsheet. Now granted, you loose some convenience by having at-a-glance-feedback from a highlight, but the trade-off would be greater control over the stability of your system, plus, you'll be building a comprehensive database for each lexical entry by making an inductive word study of your own.

 

And BTW, thank you for sharing your system, it's given me some motivation to start creating a personal lexicon myself.

 

56 minutes ago, Kristin said:

2) The other issue is the Notes. ... Are you just not using the Notes in Accordance?

 

That is correct. I do not take notes in Accordance. To me, Accordance is first and foremost a tool to study the Bible and that's where it shines. But my notes and research which represent my investment of thought and time is another matter that I consider too valuable to trust to any single software program (hence "software agnosticism"). So, I trade a bit of convenience for security. But it seems like a good trade off to me (and it's not really all that inconvenient anyway).

 

Hope that helps.

[Kristin]

Hi @darrylmy,

Thank you for the explanation, and yes, that helps a lot. It is going to be a commotion to change systems, but I think for sure worth it in the long run.

Concerning not using Notes, ya, "too valuable" is a good description. I think getting my notes out of Accordance and somewhere safer is a higher priority than translating right now since it is too critical and prone to corruption.

[darrylmy]

24 minutes ago, Kristin said:

Hi @darrylmy,

Thank you for the explanation, and yes, that helps a lot. It is going to be a commotion to change systems, but I think for sure worth it in the long run.

Concerning not using Notes, ya, "too valuable" is a good description. I think getting my notes out of Accordance and somewhere safer is a higher priority than translating right now since it is too critical and prone to corruption.

 

You're welcome; glad to help! I think it's a wise move to get your notes into a safer format. Please feel free to share any tips you find/develop in your new system. Always looking to improve by incorporating the insights from others.

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Many word processors have a “highlight” feature. Microsoft Word does, LibreOffice probably does, as does Mellel and probably Pages. Nisus Writer Pro probably does.

 

Nisus Writer Pro reads/writes to RTF format, and Accordance exports biblical text selections to RTF format. Nisus Writer Pro is pretty cost-effective as well (I should probably throw it back on my Mac). RTF is a “platform agnostic” format that can be opened pretty much anywhere.

 

You could export a block of text to RTF format, open it in a word processor such as Nisus Writer Pro, and use the “highlight” feature to track your progress. 

 

In terms of recommending a third-party option, I’m primarily recommending such an option for two reasons. One, due to your personal experience with highlighting issues, I’m recommending another option since while we are working on addressing issues with user file formats in Accordance, it’s going to take us some time and effort. I haven’t personally experienced the level of issues with highlighting you’ve reported, but since you’re knee-deep in work, I want to suggest another viable option to you to answer your initial question. I don’t want to simply leave you hanging without some form of option or options to consider.

 

Second, I always keep copies of my work in “platform agnostic” formats that can be opened in pretty much any editor on any platform. This isn’t saying anything against Accordance, Logos, Mellel, Pages, Numbers, Keynote, Nota Bene, Microsoft Office, or the plethora of tools I use on a regular basis. However, since there are times when I need access to research that I’d need to be open on any platform in any editor (regardless whether my tools are installed on the machine or not), I’d want to get access to the research. By saving copies of my work in “platform agnostic” formats, even if a tornado comes and wipes out my home, provided I have a copy of my research backed up in cloud storage, I can sign into a web browser and at least view it or open it on even the most barebones of a machine (such a tablet, ChromeBook, Linux machine, etc) while I awaited to get my hands on a new dedicated machine for my work. I could literally borrow any device with an Internet connection (regardless of the OS its running) and keep working until I was able to purchase a new machine. Just as we’ll be releasing a version of Accordance Cloud that runs in a web browser that can run on any platform with a web browser, I’ve already setup that form of workflow with my own personal user data.

 

In terms of user file formats, it’s an area we’re continuing to address, but our user files are deep-level enhancements. It’ll take a solid time and effort investment to work on them, and there’s a ton of stuff on our programmer’s plates at the moment. However, it is on our list of priorities to work on, and as we make more progress in this area, we will keep you updated.

[Kristin]

Hi @Nathan Parker,

I hope this doesn't come across wrong, but your response sounds like an add for "the competitor". I am not threatening to go there or anything, but that is the ONLY third party program that can even come close to doing what I was trying to do. Ya, that is true that Numbers, OpenOffice, Word, etc, etc, etc, everything has a "highlight" function, but the point isn't "highlighting" the point is marking a tagged text. If I just needed to "highlight" text, I wouldn't have bought Accordance as I can do that anywhere.

I appreciate your honesty though that I should stop holding my breath for the highlights and notes to get fixed, it is just frustrating since I had been told years ago they were being fixed. I had pre-ordered 14 since I had thought it was finally addressing the issues v.13 had caused. (I can't stress enough that I did not have note corruption or highlight corruption in v.12.) From what you wrote, it sounds like they aren't being fixed, but rather on a future to-do list of to MAYBE fix in the future if there is time, or something like that.

Nonetheless, since the official Accordance position (based on your post) appears to be advocating using other software, I will keep that in mind.

Again, I appreciate your honesty.
Kristin
 

[Sam Freney]

This is not exactly platform-agnostic, but is a possible solution using an external tool.

 

Here's what I was doing before phrasing came in to Accordance. (Now I'm experimenting with phrasing.)

 

I had a Numbers file for each book, and one sheet per chapter. Then, one column per language, and a host of 'character styles' defined with hotkey shortcuts defined using F1–F8. So I could highlight a word with a keypress, and easily compare the text to many other languages I found relevant. Sometimes I'd add in a comment on a cell with vocab, especially for some of the rare words scattered liberally through the OT!

 

Upside of this is that I can do it with text that doesn't exist in Accordance, e.g. Kriol, Pitjantjatjara (in the attached screenshot). Adding more languages is easy as you can keep going sideways in a table. Downside is none of the hover tools for vocab, parsing, etc.

 

For backup, export to Excel works mostly fine although it doesn't preserve the indentation, but that's not a catastrophic loss. PDF is also there.

[Kristin]

Hi @Sam Freney

Thank you for the screenshot, that is helpful, as I am slowly moving my work to Numbers. I like Numbers since it has never corrupted, now matter how much I abuse it. This is sort of a side note but something I was wondering during your color coding. My understanding is that Numbers can't search for colors, is that correct? I had been thinking of highlighting words as you had based on different verbs and such, but then it occurred to me that it wouldn't be searchable.

[Sam Freney]

I think you can search for a character style in Excel, but not in Numbers. You can change or update the style itself easily enough, but not as a search parameter.

 

I've managed to corrupt a Numbers file before, with pasting in weird and wonderful non-English characters...

[Daniel L]

5 hours ago, Kristin said:

I remember that resolving the bugs of highlight corruption and note corruption was promised to be resolved years before anyone had even heard of v.14.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Accordance needs more developers. A lot more. Putting sophisticated software on five platforms requires more than a skeleton crew that can't work on more than one or two problems at a time, company wide.

 

Here's what I estimate Accordance needs: three developers dedicated to Mac; three to Windows (there may be some overlap for platform-agnostic work); two to iOS; two to Android; three for the cloud; a few to create/update modules; two for non-English Bibles and tools; three for formalized, rigorous quality control using industry best practices and exhaustive checklists to prevent regressions and catch most bugs; two to create internal tech. – software and scripts (maybe AI?) to automate and streamline as many development processes and testing as possible; and at least one to fix the tagging for NASB and other Bibles, which could take years, using current methods.

 

I know that may seem like a lot, but Oak Tree has chosen to support all these platforms. They didn't just stick with macOS. (I am thankful.) They've promised to fix the years-old bugs and more.

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

I’ve also managed to corrupt iWork files in the past (so anything you bring into Numbers, I’d still recommend exporting to other formats), but it was the old “package” format iWork files. I’ve had better luck with the more recent file formats in iWork.

 

We have teams actively looking into changes to user file formats (as well as other under-the-hood stuff), but we don’t have a specific ETA as these are “deep level” projects. Making changes to user file formats is a process that takes a considerable amount of time and effort since these aren’t minor changes. There are some small bug fixes we can quickly implement and push out (as we’ve seen in other bug fix releases). There are others that take extensive planning, effort, and testing (as we saw in 14.0.5 with the changes to the connection between Accordance Desktop and Accordance’s servers). User file format changes are one of them that takes time and effort.

 

We have expanded our programming team this year, and some of the under-the-hood stuff is part of what our expansion to our programming team is working on.

 

In terms of third-party tools, I don’t consider that so much an “ad” for another Bible software app but just my personal advice on storing data in “platform agnostic” formats. I like knowing I can open/work on my data anywhere no matter what happens. Living in Tornado Alley will do that for you. Knowing I can grab any Internet-connected device and access mission-critical research knowing the files will open regardless of what OS the device is running is peace of mine to me personally.

[Kristin]

1 hour ago, Nathan Parker said:

I've also managed to corrupt iWork files in the past

@Nathan Parker,

Do you know what you did which caused the corruption? Was it too large? Were you using images, etc?

 

p.s. - I just noticed you said "iWork." What program was it, and was it on a computer or what?

Edited May 12, 2023 by Kristin

[Sam Freney]

55 minutes ago, Kristin said:

p.s. - I just noticed you said "iWork." What program was it, and was it on a computer or what?

 

iWork used to be the name of the app suite including Pages, Numbers, and Keynote.

 

(iLife was iPhoto, iMovie, iTunes, iWeb, etc)

[Kristin]

9 hours ago, Sam Freney said:

 

iWork used to be the name of the app suite including Pages, Numbers, and Keynote.

 

(iLife was iPhoto, iMovie, iTunes, iWeb, etc)

 

Hi @Sam Freney,

Thanks for clarifying, but ya, I know that. My question had been "what" had corrupted. After Accordance (through Nathan...) advised I use other software, I decided to use Numbers since that program had been discussed on a few other "note corruption" threads as a possible alternative, and also, multiple people had said Numbers didn't corrupt easily (someone said they had never heard of it corrupting, but I can't remember who said it). So since we had been talking about Numbers (including your screenshot, which was VERY helpful!) when Nathan said that he had corrupted it, I had mistaken it to mean that he had corrupted a "Numbers" file. Then after I posted it I realized he hadn't said Numbers but "iWork" which changes everything. If he had corrupted Numbers, that would be somewhat panic inducing. If, however, he had corrupted a 2,000 slide Keynote with live movie clips about the weather, I am not concerned. So I was hoping to find out what had actually corrupted and why.

[Kristin]

12 hours ago, Sam Freney said:

I've managed to corrupt a Numbers file before, with pasting in weird and wonderful non-English characters...

 

Oh wow! I am just seeing this. I'm obviously using Greek, Hebrew, and sometimes even stranger languages in Numbers. I think the moral is to periodically do duplicates as a backup (as well as TimeMachine every night). Do you know which language it was which likely caused the corruption?