Search for ειδοτ* gives false results?

[Enoch]

Search for ειδοτ* gives false results -- or did I somehow search wrong?  I wanted to see all the forms in USB-4 which start with ειδοτ, so I added the asterisk.  But the result was the pop up window saying, "The selected lexical from cannot be found in the "USB4-T" text.  (I want to know why this oida form has a τ in it in Rom 5:3, weird perfect active participle, masculine, nominative plural. 

[Tim Planche]

Dear Enoch

 

try using "ειδοτ*" with inverted commas - this signifies you are looking for he inflected form and not the lemma - I get 27 hits like this in UBS 4

[Enoch]

49 minutes ago, Tim Planche said:

Dear Enoch

 

try using "ειδοτ*" with inverted commas - this signifies you are looking for he inflected form and not the lemma - I get 27 hits like this in UBS 4

When I tried that, the Accordance program would not allow me to add a " after the *; the program would erase the quote marks or cause a visual mess at the attempted *"  -- that was using Accordance 13.  I tried that in an older computer which had Accordance 12 in it, & your method worked. Thanks.  I figured out a partial explanation for the ειδοτ ending in τ:  the standard morph for perfect active participle is kot (remembered by picturing lying in a cot which has participle written on it).  So this perfect form does not use kappa, as what might be called 2nd perfect, thus it is merely ot and not kot. Of course I am still wondering why oida starts with oi, but its participle starts with ei.  Maybe it is somehow analogous to a non-indicative form lacking an augment where the indicative form has an augment.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Enoch

[Tim Planche]

Hmmm.....

 

not sure - seemed to work for me - screenshot attached

 

was the search set to Words and not verses?

 

otherwise not sure - but can you just paste in "ειδοτ*"?

[Lorinda H. M. Hoover]

It works for me in Accordance 14

[Tim Planche]

17 hours ago, Enoch said:

When I tried that, the Accordance program would not allow me to add a " after the *; the program would erase the quote marks or cause a visual mess at the attempted *"  -- that was using Accordance 13.  I tried that in an older computer which had Accordance 12 in it, & your method worked. Thanks.  I figured out a partial explanation for the ειδοτ ending in τ:  the standard morph for perfect active participle is kot (remembered by picturing lying in a cot which has participle written on it).  So this perfect form does not use kappa, as what might be called 2nd perfect, thus it is merely ot and not kot. Of course I am still wondering why oida starts with oi, but its participle starts with ei.  Maybe it is somehow analogous to a non-indicative form lacking an augment where the indicative form has an augment.

If you are looking into the morphology of the perfect particle in general then would suggest you could search for all the perfect participles using *@ [VERB perfect participle] as a search term and then use the analytics 

- below is the screen shot with the analytics (only 1 page shown) displaying infected forms and person and number  - sorted by most common Lemmas and divided by voice - (active voice fist) 

This should give you a much more complete form of the morphology of perfect participles among the NT writers 

 

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

14.0.5 was released today. Anyone with the issue, re-test in 14.0.5 and let us know if you’re having it.

[Lawrence]

On 4/28/2023 at 1:48 AM, Enoch said:

Of course I am still wondering why oida starts with oi, but its participle starts with ei.  Maybe it is somehow analogous to a non-indicative form lacking an augment where the indicative form has an augment.

 

I'm no expert on this, but I was wondering about the word family of εἶδος (form, appearance), which seems to somewhat bridge the semantic (meaning) and lexical (spelling) ranges of οἴδα (I know/understand) and ὁράω (I see, aorist εἶδον). They even sound similar - if we consider Koine Greek pronunciation to be close to Modern Greek pronunciation, οἴ- and εἶ- both sound like "ee" (likewise the first syllable of ἰδεῖν, which is another variant in the spelling). If you look up εἶδος in Brill, you'll even find οἶδα making an appearance.

[Enoch]

On 4/28/2023 at 9:58 PM, Lawrence said:

 

I'm no expert on this, but I was wondering about the word family of εἶδος (form, appearance), which seems to somewhat bridge the semantic (meaning) and lexical (spelling) ranges of οἴδα (I know/understand) and ὁράω (I see, aorist εἶδον). They even sound similar - if we consider Koine Greek pronunciation to be close to Modern Greek pronunciation, οἴ- and εἶ- both sound like "ee" (likewise the first syllable of ἰδεῖν, which is another variant in the spelling). If you look up εἶδος in Brill, you'll even find οἶδα making an appearance.

Ye olde question of itacism.  I figure that there was quite a variety (as today with English) in pronunciation of vowels from city to city.  I take it that oida as perfect means literally "I have seen" and thus figuratively: therefore "know." And probably its historical ancestor began with Fid (digamma).

[Lawrence]

5 hours ago, Enoch said:

Ye olde question of itacism.  I figure that there was quite a variety (as today with English) in pronunciation of vowels from city to city.  I take it that oida as perfect means literally "I have seen" and thus figuratively: therefore "know." And probably its historical ancestor began with Fid (digamma).

 

Haha, I looked up itacism and found that it, too, seems to have undergone i[o]tacism.