Can Accordance identify transliterated words?

[dlrude]

Hi,

 

Does anyone know if or how Accordance could be used to identify Greek words that have been transliterated in an English translation?

 

Thanks, Dave.

[Lawrence]

6 hours ago, dlrude said:

Hi,

 

Does anyone know if or how Accordance could be used to identify Greek words that have been transliterated in an English translation?

 

Thanks, Dave.

 

I doubt it. One difficulty in mechanically finding transliterations is that inflections in the Greek are normally not carried over to English even with transliterated words such as names and currency. For example, we don't say that Jesus spoke with Petron, or that some 'followed Paulou'.

 

It could be argued that other than terms like "hallelujah", what we have is a borrowing rather than a transliteration. The borrowed word is an English word, subject to English inflections such as making nouns  plural by adding "s" where transliterated Greek might add "oi" or "as" etc. (You might want to call this something stronger than a 'borrowing', but that's the term in use.) You could do it if these words were tagged in Accordance, but I'd be surprised if they were.

[Joe Weaks]

Fascinating question. The answer is no.

 

The answer is also slightly nuanced one. 

I take you to be referring to words where the modern translators, instead of translating a word, simply transliterate it. Phenomena like

ἀμήν as "amen"

and obviously names like Βαραββᾶς as "Barabbas"

 

But it got me thinking about a whole other class of words in the NT that etymologically are English words, but come direct from the Greek form. Such as
ἀθλῇτις as "athlete"

βάρβαρος as "barbarian"

γνῷς as "know"

ἐνέργον as "energy"  

τεχνίτης as "technician"

I would argue ἄγγελος  as "angel" is in this category. It is not being transliterated. That is an English word.

 

There are also some places where we do not use the clear English derivative because we use it differently, such as

συμφωνία is not rendered as "symphony" but as "music"

μωρὸν os rendered as "fool[-ish]", because it's just rude to say "moron"  

 

I digress... the answer to your question is no.*

 

* It's a pretty finite list, especially outside of names, so you could find a bit or research that has listed all those words and then use it as a word list in Accordance.

 

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

It’d likely involve more than a search engine could do on its own. It’d likely involve human reasoning to assemble it all together. It would make for an interesting book or academic paper to read!

[Lester P. Bagley]

1 hour ago, Joe Weaks said:

Fascinating question. The answer is no.

 

The answer is also slightly nuanced one. 

I take you to be referring to words where the modern translators, instead of translating a word, simply transliterate it. Phenomena like

ἀμήν as "amen"

and obviously names like Βαραββᾶς as "Barabbas"

 

But it got me thinking about a whole other class of words in the NT that etymologically are English words, but come direct from the Greek form. Such as
ἀθλῇτις as "athlete"

βάρβαρος as "barbarian"

γνῷς as "know"

ἐνέργον as "energy"  

τεχνίτης as "technician"

I would argue ἄγγελος  as "angel" is in this category. It is not being transliterated. That is an English word.

 

There are also some places where we do not use the clear English derivative because we use it differently, such as

συμφωνία is not rendered as "symphony" but as "music"

μωρὸν os rendered as "fool[-ish]", because it's just rude to say "moron"  

 

I digress... the answer to your question is no.*

 

* It's a pretty finite list, especially outside of names, so you could find a bit or research that has listed all those words and then use it as a word list in Accordance.

 

 

Joe well illustrates the problem. Part of what is required is the history of where each English word comes into the language (etymology) and that is a whole field itself.

 

By the way, @Joe Weaks your argument for "angel" seems valid as the Greek seems to be transliterated into both Latin and Old French so to eventually migrate to English. Fascinating study that would, as @Nathan Parker says, make a great book.

 

Babble Magazine did an article on 21 such words that give you a good addition to Joe's start:

https://www.babbel.com/en/magazine/21-english-words-that-are-actually-greek-and-the-stories-behind-them?cmdf=english+words+transliterated+from+greek

[Joe Weaks]

37 minutes ago, Nathan Parker said:

involve more than a search engine could do on its own

Correct. The text module would have to have a "transliterated" tag.

[dlrude]

Thank you so much for your thoughts and advice.

I did try the method below and it helped and may have worked such that I have found most of the words.

I am not interested in transliterated names or places or "non-Bible" words.

 

Searched thru all tools using the research tab with a search like this "Transliterat*  <and> word", got a whole bunch of results but noticed the obvious that a large number of hits were in dictionaries.

 

Switched the search to withing a dictionary and add "<and> Greek"  and later added Latin.

 

I got the list below then looked in the Wycliffe bible to see if these transliterated words were in that version.

 

I put "1380" after the word if it was used in Wycliffe and "after 1380" if it was not.

 

Thanks again, Dave Rude

 

hypocrite  1380
angel   1380
christ   1380
deacons  1380
evangelist   1380
apostle   1380
pastor   after 1380
baptism   1380
blasphemy  1380
martyr   after 1380
abba 1380
anathema  after 1380
gehenna
mammon  after 380
amen   1380
zeal    after 1380
parable   1380

 

[Joe Weaks]

39 minutes ago, dlrude said:

Thank you so much for your thoughts and advice.

I did try the method below and it helped and may have worked such that I have found most of the words.

I am not interested in transliterated names or places or "non-Bible" words.

 

Searched thru all tools using the research tab with a search like this "Transliterat*  <and> word", got a whole bunch of results but noticed the obvious that a large number of hits were in dictionaries.

 

Switched the search to withing a dictionary and add "<and> Greek"  and later added Latin.

 

I got the list below then looked in the Wycliffe bible to see if these transliterated words were in that version.

 

I put "1380" after the word if it was used in Wycliffe and "after 1380" if it was not.

 

Thanks again, Dave Rude

 

hypocrite  1380
angel   1380
christ   1380
deacons  1380
evangelist   1380
apostle   1380
pastor   after 1380
baptism   1380
blasphemy  1380
martyr   after 1380
abba 1380
anathema  after 1380
gehenna
mammon  after 380
amen   1380
zeal    after 1380
parable   1380

 

 

If researching by searching, for sure your best bet is creative searches in various lexicons.

Your list is inconsistent though. It crosses back and forth across the distinction I referenced in my contribution.

Words like "hypocrite" and "angel" and "baptism" and "pastor" are 100% not transliteration from the Greek. They are English words that came into use during or shortly after the development of Middle English, yes from Greek, but many times through Latin, into Middle English, into modern English. They are English words, used to translate, just like "barbarian", "energy", and "athlete" that I mentioned above.

Transliteration is when a modern translation anglicizes a word instead of translating it, as per amen and mammon and gehenna, etc. on your list.

 

[dlrude]

Thanks Joe,

I think that I understand your point.

However I want to view that class of words that you mention.

The words that were transliterated at a much earlier time from Greek to Latin to English as you describe interest me.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Dave

 

[Lester P. Bagley]

2 hours ago, Joe Weaks said:

Transliteration is when a modern translation anglicizes a word instead of translating it, as per amen and mammon and gehenna, etc. on your list.

 

To be more precise, transliteration occurs when ANY translation simply converts a word from the original language involved to the new language. This semantic use is why people miss how many words actually are anglicized instead of being translated. Sometimes, it's because there is no such concept in the language and other time (often the case with Biblical words) it's simply a preference for the original language words.

 

Old teachers just can't resist the urge for precision 🤓

[Lawrence]

@dlrude

 

There is a convention where all non-English words are italicised. That's why you'd see the Latin phrase "ad hoc" in italics but the equivalent English phrase "as necessary" in plain text.

 

If you can find a translation that observes that convention (and that doesn't italicise other words), you can do a more systematic mechanical search for your transliterations.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Lawrence

[Dan Langston]

I know it's not what the OP originally asked, but it reminded me of the Keyword short-cut you can use with "transliterated" words and search in a tagged Bible. Like usual, Accordance does it immediately.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Dan Langston