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Just a note of consideration


Pastor Jonathan

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I have spent some time reading the bug swatters on both MAC and MS. I cannot remember who said it, and I could not find the quote, but I saw some discussion regarding how Windows users are second rate in the focus of Accordance. Then I saw some Mac users saying they feel Windows is getting the attention. Of course the mobile users say they have been without an upgrade for many years. 

 

NOTICE: THIS IS NOT A COMPLAINT. Just a realization that came to me last night. 

 

While it may seem these three groups are either being ignored, or are second rate, there is a small swath of us users who are not even on the radar. It truly is that a native Linux app and Linux users are secondary in terms of software. (ETA: This is not a complaint. We chose this platform for various reasons, and therefore knew what we were getting into. So this is also not seeking sympathy but this post is a desire to try and help keep unity and an understanding heart). 

 

There is no real major company that produces Linux native apps (I know of a few that produce some software, and what they do is decent). I also know that the cost to do so is or may not be there, so this is not to try and talk Accordance into doing this. 

 

But I want to encourage both sides of this discussion in the bug swatters: When you start to feel that your preferred OS is being ignored or downgraded, just remember, Linux users do not even have an option. 

 

So, for me, I am anxiously waiting for the cloud. It will be as close as I can get without running a VM. 

 

I just changed my OS from PureOS to Mint, and so I no longer have my VM (thinking of setting another one up) but the thought of going back through all of that to make it work is just...tiring (sp?). 

 

Therefore, give the Accordance team time to work on your OS program of choice. I am sure they are working hard, and I am sure they will produce a good product as these bugs get hashed out. 

 

Well, that ends my PSA for today. Happy studying!

Edited by Pastor Jonathan
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@Pastor Jonathan

 

Good point about counting your blessings.

 

By the way, you can run Virtual Box in Linux Mint. If your VMs were created in Virtual Box, you should be able to copy the virtual machine disk images over to your Mint installation and run them there. Unless there are memory constraints or problems with getting the networking to pass through into the VM, you should be able to continue working in the client OS right where you left off.

 

NB: if you were using emulation (WINE) instead of a VM, all bets are off.

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@Lawrence,

 

I did look at transferring my images, but I was using Gnome Boxes. So I would have to set up a Virtual Box in another emulator. Not sure which to use, whether go straight to VB or try something else. 

 

I just switched it today and have several projects to work on, so this would be a project for a week that I don't have a lot to do (starting to smile, then snicker, snort, and finally...).

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

Wonder what a slow week is like, LOL!

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If you were using gnome boxes, then you can use whatever version of KVM that comes with Mint. Gnome boxes is just a GUI front-end for virsh, I believe. As long as you have your XML file and your disk image (and assuming you didn't change hardware platforms like going from Intel to AMD), you should be good to go. You could also rebuild a new virtual machine in KVM and import the disk image.

Do you know if you saved the config files in your migration? They're usually stored in ~/.config/libvirt

Edited by T. Conrad
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@T. Conrad,

 

I wish I knew this. From what I read, it told me that it was different. RATS! I Reformatted the SSD I am using when I did a full install

 

I didn't do any changes from Intel to AMD, but I am using a special built platform, and I am not sure what they put inside of it. I believe I have an AMD display card, but I will have to look at KVM and start again. 

 

Just as a side conversation, I may be changing my desktop version. I do know my driver was an open source and if you are using Linux Mint 21.? the screens will flicker really bad. So I downloaded the recommended Nvidia files and ran that instead, and it is working like a dream. 

 

Right now I am using the Xfce edition as it is lightweight on my Linux Netbook (can't call it Chromebook if there is no Chrome..right? :D). 

 

But I am using that on my desktop at the moment but will be changing it to either the MATE or the Cinnamon Edition. I am just trying it to see how I like it but I really like the robust version of the Cinnamon. 

 

So, I might hold off on building the VM till I see which OS platform I want. Will be putting MATE on my laptop when I get my SD card for more space on my laptop. But the size difference is impressive. On the MATE it is about 11 GB required of space (that is almost 100% of my HD on my netbook). The Xfce is just barely above 5 GB. Runs good, and does what I need. Might just change my desktop after playing with this for a little bit. 

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Once you settle on your Linux distro, I’d recommend proceeding with the VM. While we’re getting there with Accordance Cloud, you’ll probably not want to wait until Cloud is released to continue using Accordance. Additionally, while Accordance Cloud will give you access to your Accordance library in a web-browser, since it’s our newest platform, there will be additional features only on Accordance Desktop at the moment. Accordance Desktop will also function offline in the event you needed to use Accordance without a network connection (although some websites like Trinitarian Bible Society offer a way to download/cache some of their online Bibles for offline use, so I’ll have to see if this is some form of option to consider in the future).

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@Nathan Parker,

 

Will do. I know the web browser will not give me everything and once I settle in with a flavor, I will set it up. 

 

I am switching back to Mint simply because I got bored with PureOS. Good system, but just tired of the layout. Mint is the flavor of the month, year, maybe? 

 

That is the only thing I want to make sure I can do. Still use my Accordance. For this week, I will be happy to just get a VM set up. It is crazy and just looking at my calendar is tiresome. 

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Around 2010 I moved from Debian Stable to the Linux Mint and Linux Mint Debian distributions. The Xfce  edition is definitely better on less capable hardware. I have always preferred the MATE edition with my less than bleeding edge hardware since the Cinnamon edition often had some "interesting" interaction with the video side of my hardware. I run Virtual Box on all of my operating systems (Win 10, macOS, Linux) and have a few legacy set ups that I run as VM's on all of my desktops.

 

Best wishes with your Linux endeavors,

 

--Joseph

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@Solly,

 

Yes. I don't know if I used the MATE yet. I either used the Cinnamon or the Xfce, but I am going to try the MATE on my desktop. The XFCE is just going to have to reside on the laptop simply because of size. Thank you for your wishes. I know enough to be dangerous. But not enough to get out of danger, LOL. 

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I know a HAM radio operator who is big on Linux Mint and Mint Debian if you have any questions for him. He runs everything off of it. I tried Mint Cinnamon a while back when I was tinkering with Linux.

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I am running Accordance 14.0.5b1 on Debian GNU/Linux using VMware Workstation.

 

Maybe someday we'll see something more convenient, but VMware it is for now.

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@Dan Dennison

 

Thank you for the info. I will look into it. From what it sounds like, it sounds as though the app is in a cloud? Or is it a download on my computer and then Windows is put on it and then Accordance on that? 

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@Pastor Jonathan, if you're referring to VMWare Workstation, that is essentially the same thing as VirtualBox--a standalone app that you create a virtual machine with. (Install Windows in, then Accordance as well.) VirtualBox is one implementation of this concept by Oracle, and VMware Workstation is another implementation by VMware.

 

Having said that, there ARE cloud-based services (costly) which allow you to spin up VMs in the cloud using enterprise-grade hardware (including full 3d acceleration). But I'm thinking that might not be what you are gunning for...

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@T. Conrad,

 

Unless that would aid the 3d map rendering in Accordance better B). But it also depends on price. 

 

That makes sense on the structure. I was doing some reading and I was getting lost in the shuffle. Of course it was late last night anyway so the mind was not 100% either. 

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On 3/28/2023 at 11:36 PM, Pastor Jonathan said:

@Lawrence,

 

I did look at transferring my images, but I was using Gnome Boxes. So I would have to set up a Virtual Box in another emulator. Not sure which to use, whether go straight to VB or try something else. 

 

I just switched it today and have several projects to work on, so this would be a project for a week that I don't have a lot to do (starting to smile, then snicker, snort, and finally...).

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

Wonder what a slow week is like, LOL!

 

It looks like you've got some good information already about a migration path.

For what it's worth, you may be able to run Gnome Box on Mint directly.

See <https://community.linuxmint.com/software/view/gnome-boxes>.

 

Cinnamon on Linux Mint is quite nice.

 

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@Lawrence,

 

Thank you. I will read it. 

 

I am going to get my computers set up and I will let everyone know how that works. 

 

One more question I have. I have a SSD card, but then I have a standard Hard Drive. If I were to load the VM on the standard HD, and then the host OS on the SSD, could I, in theory, be able to swtich from one OS to another and change flavors, but still keep the VM? 

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I think VMware has a free version for noncommerical use. I’ve used it before. Pretty much any VM app that’ll run Windows will work. You’ll want to decide on which one gives you the best performance, ease of use, etc. 

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13 hours ago, Pastor Jonathan said:

@Lawrence,

 

Thank you. I will read it. 

 

I am going to get my computers set up and I will let everyone know how that works. 

 

One more question I have. I have a SSD card, but then I have a standard Hard Drive. If I were to load the VM on the standard HD, and then the host OS on the SSD, could I, in theory, be able to swtich from one OS to another and change flavors, but still keep the VM? 

 

The way Virtual Machines work is to have a host OS (in your case, Linux Mint) and a client OS (Windows or whatever you were running in your Gnome Box). The host OS will always be active, and the client OS runs in a window and will have sub-windows of its own.

 

So you can, for example, open two windows side by side in Linux Mint:

- Web browser

- Gnome Box running Windows as the OS, with Accordance running as a Windows app.

 

You can normally only have one host OS. Even if you install both PureOS and Linux Mint side-by-side (e.g. on separate drives), you can't run both at the same time as the host OS. What you can do is configure things so you can choose which OS you want to run each time you restart the computer. However, you can pick any (single) host OS and then run multiple client virtual machines simultaneously. Each VM can run any flavour of any OS, subject to resource (and licensing) constraints. Each VM will have its own window to run in - it's just like having multiple browser windows open.

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On 3/29/2023 at 1:13 PM, Pastor Jonathan said:

@T. Conrad,

 

Unless that would aid the 3d map rendering in Accordance better B). But it also depends on price. 

 

That makes sense on the structure. I was doing some reading and I was getting lost in the shuffle. Of course it was late last night anyway so the mind was not 100% either. 

Some cloud VMs would. (Those that have dedicated GPUs assigned to them.) You can get full 3D acceleration in KVM, but you need a separate (and compatible) GPU... Plus another mouse, keyboard, and monitor. It's complicated to set up but runs like a dream. You also need a compatible processor--the more cores the better--and enough extra RAM to dedicate to that VM. (Though that remains the case in any situation.)

 

I'm guessing that's more than you're willing to invest in a solution.. But it is possible. Just not too practical I'm afraid. 

Neat tech though. And all open source (Windows, et al notwithstanding. :P)

Edited by T. Conrad
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Hi, all.

 

Just wanted to add the links below for your convenience.

 

VMware does indeed have free versions for personal use and covers Windows, Mac, and Linux.

 

VMware Fusion Player for Mac - free for personal use:

 

https://customerconnect.vmware.com/evalcenter?p=fusion-player-personal

 

VMware Workstation Player for Windows and Linux- free for personal use:

 

https://www.vmware.com/products/workstation-player.html

 

Enjoy!

 

 

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Thank you all for all the conversation. So here is where I am right now. 

 

On my desktop I just got Virtual Box installed, and am waiting for the ISO for Winblow...err...Windows. :P

 

I had to get a new laptop and that is now set and again, waiting for the Windows ISO. 

 

Once both of those are done I will get Accordance installed. Thanks for the help. 

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That solution looks good to me. I don't love having to use VMware, but this is where we're at today. There is a lot of work afoot to make such a setup obsolete, but nothing to show so far.

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18 hours ago, Dan Dennison said:

That solution looks good to me. I don't love having to use VMware, but this is where we're at today. There is a lot of work afoot to make such a setup obsolete, but nothing to show so far.

VM Ware is not one I am familiar with. Why are they wanting to deep six it? 

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15 hours ago, john_2022 said:

 

Best Buy has Macbooks on sale right now. anywhere from $50 to $700 off. My sister just bought her first Mac as she is getting into video editing. It was $200 off. She paid ~$850.

 

Not sure how long this sale will last. They usually change things on Sundays. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/promo/select-macbook-models-savings

 

Did you know the command line in MacOS is almost identical to Linux? (Or should I say Linux is similar to the Mac) 🙂

 

Hey, @john_2022,

 

Thank you. My daughter has a handicap and so we bought her an IPad when she was younger. It helped and thankfully she has coped very well. The IPad was fantastic for those first few years. For that I am thankful they made it an easy to use system. 

 

But, in light of my thread title, I will delve a little deeper in this and please know this is in no ways to be a correction on what you said. This is just me musing here as I am working on a sermon for Sunday. 

 

If I were to remove that early need, I didn't car for Apple. For stability, they are much more sound than Windows, but there was something about the whole...structure:unsure: that I didn't care for? 

 

I am not sure if, once you get one of their products it was an easy segway into the others. Before you know it you have the IPhone, IPad, IPod, IMac, ISuite, IHome, I whatever. The second thing that bothered me, is the business structure. We use an apple at our church and when it came time to upgrade it, send in the old, pay a difference (of which it was semi sizable) and they will get you a new one. Of course what we had didn't qualify so we had to buy a whole new system...To the tune of a little over $1K. Not that Windows is much better, especially with their new subscription models. 

 

Don't get me wrong. I don't mind paying for a subscription, if I get a perceived value out of it. If Accordance ran a subscription for $120 a year to access EVERYTHING they have and will ever have, I would pay it. Not to replace what they have now, because I want to own as well, but just as another option. 

 

However, when I found Linux, it was everything I needed and wanted! The OS is free. The document program (LibreOffice) is free and I can do all that the others can, and a little more (I can open more files than MS can). And I love to play mind games with the MS and IoS owners. Usually by saying that behind every one of their product stands the proud power of a Linux processor! :D Of course the looks I get is funny too.

 

It does take a little finagaling for me to get things right and the way I want (I purge FireFox and install Brave, have to get updated LO, run a few other odds and ends, etc) so that part takes some work, but once it runs, it runs. Same thing with VM with Accordance. I hate having it on my system, but to use it, I have to (Come One Cloud!!!!) 

 

I just bought my kids a couple of laptops for their school. Yes, they run Linux Mint. So I have been teaching them basic programming commands on the Terminal and it is fun watching them pretend like they are super users. 

 

As an update:

 

I have just finished changing my OS on my desktop from PureOS (which can mimic an apple look) and put Cinnamon Mint Vera. Then I got a new laptop and it has the same OS but in the MATE version. 

 

As I am typing this, I just finished putting on Accordance and

 

IT FEELS GREAT TO BE BACK!!!!!

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15 hours ago, john_2022 said:

 

Yes but keep in mind the Linux version will be close to impossible for mere mortals to get any kind of graphics acceleration working in the guest machines.

 

If you intend to use Linux as a Host OS you have to choose your hardware very carefully. Graphics acceleration is one area where Linux has always failed to deliver. The card manufacturers don't care enough to write and maintain decent drivers, and the opensource drivers have been even worse. Last time I checked (many years ago) there was still no coherent plan to design a decent graphics subsystem for Linux. Interesting but it looks like nobody except Microsoft is trying to fix it DirectX is coming to the Windows Subsystem for Linux.

 

Is Microsoft going to go opensource with this? I doubt it.

 

With Windows any graphics card that supports a late enough version of DirectX can allow 3D (and 2D) graphics acceleration in the guest OS.

 

I would assume the same is true on a Mac, although I have not explored that avenue.

 

Having said all that ... I'm not sure that Accordance really needs graphics acceleration that much 🙂

 

Agree. I am careful on the cards I use, even though I am not a guru at all this, I try to read as much as I can...or call a guru friend of mine. I need to get him an appreciation gift. 

 

But sometimes I think of what could be, without realizing the work needed to make it happen and then I realize that I am happy with my system I have and that it just works. 

 

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