Kenneth Han Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 I am getting so many sales emails from Accordance but that’s not what I need. I need bugs fixed. When a search query was not proper in previous versions Accordance used to respond quickly and fail gracefully. Now it’s spinning beach ball that locks up Accordance and sometimes crashes the app. I would like to see more frequent updates of smaller numbers of bugs fixed rather than months going by waiting for some major updates. The incredibly frequent sales emails is not at all motivating me to invest any more in Accordance when I am daily experiencing frustrations with the app. Please do something. I’ve been an Accordance user since the late 90s, and I don’t know how much I will be anymore. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Nelson Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 I can assure you that our programming team is working diligently to correct bugs. A new update should be released to beta testers very soon. As has been noted by other staff members on this forum, we're trying to do everything we can to ensure that we not release anything else to the public before it is rock solid. We recognize that the timing of the Accordance 14 release and the bugs many of our users are experiencing has resulted in a loss of trust. We won't regain that trust by rushing updates out the door before they're ready. Again though, rest assured a new update is on the way. That said, as a member of our marketing team, I do want to address a sentiment I've seen posted in a few threads on the forums, namely that our normal marketing practices should change or even cease until all the bugs have been worked out of Accordance 14. We have been sending out weekly sales emails since before I started working for Accordance (which I believe was in 2018.) These weekly sales are one of the main ways we market our products to customers, and the revenue generated by these sales helps to fund the development of the Accordance program. I can understand the frustration some users might feel to see Accordance conducting "business as usual" when they are experiencing issues with the software, but please understand that if our sales and marketing teams do not continue to conduct "business as usual," then the funds which go toward hiring and paying the programmers who fix the bugs and develop the new features will be significantly reduced. Companies that do not make money do not innovate, nor do they continue to stay in business very long. All of this is a roundabout way of saying: If you want regular bug fixes, you also want us to be offering regular sales, making new partnerships with schools and other institutions, and releasing new products. 14 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nathan Parker Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cim Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 I'm all for the weekly sales, the savings are big and payment plans are available. Yes there were so many I dropped the mailing list, but still return to see what's new. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrecht Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 18 hours ago, Sean Nelson said: ... We recognize that the timing of the Accordance 14 release and the bugs many of our users are experiencing has resulted in a loss of trust. ... This is a very real concern. Many of us have invested thousands of dollars in the Accordance platform, not to mention other programs that are no longer supported (eg, Silver Mountain Software, BibleWorks, etc). Some of the comments I've heard suggest that Accordance is understaffed, that programming and support staff are overworked, that the company is struggling in a difficult economy. That worries some of us, I'm sorry to say. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdave Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 I like the weekly sales emails. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Cobb Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 45 minutes ago, docdave said: I like the weekly sales emails. Same here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Nelson Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 1 hour ago, robrecht said: This is a very real concern. Many of us have invested thousands of dollars in the Accordance platform, not to mention other programs that are no longer supported (eg, Silver Mountain Software, BibleWorks, etc). Some of the comments I've heard suggest that Accordance is understaffed, that programming and support staff are overworked, that the company is struggling in a difficult economy. That worries some of us, I'm sorry to say. While I understand the concern (as an Accordance User prior to being an employee, I too have money invested in my library), let me say that Accordance isn't going anywhere. We've brought several new members onto the Accordance team in the past few months in both our development and support staff, @Nathan Parker being an example. We're also continuing to make new partnerships with academic institutions and publishers, and while the focus of our programming staff right now is making the user experience with 14 as solid as possible, development is also happening on the mobile and web fronts. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrecht Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 It's great to have Nathan aboard, but he mentioned waiting for someone to donate a Windows-based machine to him before he could test issues with the Windows software. That does not exactly inspire confidence in the financial stability of the company. I hope you do not mind customers expressing their concerns frankly. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GYDOF1729 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 What new academic institutions and publishers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pder3571 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 On 3/21/2023 at 12:48 PM, Sean Nelson said: I can assure you that our programming team is working diligently to correct bugs. A new update should be released to beta testers very soon. As has been noted by other staff members on this forum, we're trying to do everything we can to ensure that we not release anything else to the public before it is rock solid. We recognize that the timing of the Accordance 14 release and the bugs many of our users are experiencing has resulted in a loss of trust. We won't regain that trust by rushing updates out the door before they're ready. Again though, rest assured a new update is on the way. That said, as a member of our marketing team, I do want to address a sentiment I've seen posted in a few threads on the forums, namely that our normal marketing practices should change or even cease until all the bugs have been worked out of Accordance 14. We have been sending out weekly sales emails since before I started working for Accordance (which I believe was in 2018.) These weekly sales are one of the main ways we market our products to customers, and the revenue generated by these sales helps to fund the development of the Accordance program. I can understand the frustration some users might feel to see Accordance conducting "business as usual" when they are experiencing issues with the software, but please understand that if our sales and marketing teams do not continue to conduct "business as usual," then the funds which go toward hiring and paying the programmers who fix the bugs and develop the new features will be significantly reduced. Companies that do not make money do not innovate, nor do they continue to stay in business very long. All of this is a roundabout way of saying: If you want regular bug fixes, you also want us to be offering regular sales, making new partnerships with schools and other institutions, and releasing new products. Honestly, I don't believe that you do understand the frustration, much less the common sense, that many of us are sharing, nor do I really think that you care. You're going to do things your way, and if we don't like it, then we can lump it the best way we know how. Just remember, what comes around, goes around. When you dump on your clientele by refusing to listen, you may rest assure that one day you'll be dumped on. And can you just imagine all the sales you'll be making then, along with all those new partnerships? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pder3571 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 3 hours ago, Sean Nelson said: While I understand the concern (as an Accordance User prior to being an employee, I too have money invested in my library), let me say that Accordance isn't going anywhere. We've brought several new members onto the Accordance team in the past few months in both our development and support staff, @Nathan Parker being an example. We're also continuing to make new partnerships with academic institutions and publishers, and while the focus of our programming staff right now is making the user experience with 14 as solid as possible, development is also happening on the mobile and web fronts. Quit telling us that you understand, when clearly you don't. Because if you understood, then you would pay attention to the many excellent suggestions already made to help rectify a major problem with the Accordance application. It is nigh unto six months since Accordance 14 was released, and as I've pointed out previously, if it was an airplane, a car, or even your iPhone, you and the rest of the Accordance staff would be fleeing for your financial lives, simply because of the seemingly never-ending lawsuits that would be coming your way. Accordance 14 is a defective product, the six-month delay (and counting) in fixing the defects is an indication that Accordance is in over its head, and telling us you understand our concerns does nothing but add insult to injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Nelson Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 3 hours ago, robrecht said: It's great to have Nathan aboard, but he mentioned waiting for someone to donate a Windows-based machine to him before he could test issues with the Windows software. That does not exactly inspire confidence in the financial stability of the company. I hope you do not mind customers expressing their concerns frankly. I'm not sure what the situation with @Nathan Parker's computer was. Perhaps he can clarify. I know that in the past the company has offered to provide anything I've needed to do my job, even if it was a purchase I already intended to make. And no, neither I nor the company mind customers expressing their concerns. That's part of the reason I replied. It seems (as evidenced by a couple posts in this very thread) that some customers are taking our continuation of normal business as a sign that we don't care, or aren't sufficiently focused on squashing bugs and developing features. I wanted to clarify that this is not the case, and explain that even though our programming team is hard at work, the rest of the company has to keep doing our jobs as well to contribute to the overall success of Accordance. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Nelson Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 @pder3571 As an addendum: Per our guidelines posted above, while we do not mind users sharing their concerns, offering constructive criticism, or making requests, we do ask that when you do so you refrain from disparaging the character of others (even if those others are not users but Accordance staff members). We are trying to answer user questions and concerns as best we can. Pretty much any staff member you talk to on this forum was an Accordance user before they were an employee. We all care about user satisfaction and the success of this amazing software. Again, we welcome user input, but insinuating that our staff are lying to you and wishing karmic justice upon us is not appropriate for these forums. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Weaks Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 (edited) Folks, accusing the staff of lying is not a good look for you. I understand frustration. None of you have used Accordance as long as I have. It is helpful to remind myself I don't know all the nuances and difficulties involved. But it's silly to talk like their marketing team is taking away from the development team. And if they say their developing products and relationships with Educational Institutions, insinuating they're lying is nonsensical. I can say for a fact they've landed a site license agreement in the last couple month with at least one educational institution because I was the one who convinced and referred them to go with Accordance! I don't desire to call anyone out. I am just so, so tired of all the negativity in the forums. Edited March 22, 2023 by Joe Weaks 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnABarnett Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 My sympathies to the Accordance team for having to endure criticism that is sometimes needlessly sharp and pejorative. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nathan Parker Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 Thanks @Sean Nelson for all your great comments. I appreciate it! Concerning the Windows PC, I didn’t ask anyone to donate a computer to me. The Lord has blessed me just fine. While I could have easily gone out and self-purchased a Windows PC (I’m self-purchasing a new MacBook Air this year), I was provided a Windows PC (at no cost), and I am using it daily to test Accordance for Windows on it. I simply consider it an extra blessing from the Lord, and that’s all I’m going to say on the matter. We absolutely listen to and care about our customers. Both @Sean Nelson and I were long-term Accordance users and customers before we were employed in the company. I personally have invested thousands of dollars and countless hours of training into my own Accordance library and my own personal use of Accordance. I want Accordance to succeed and thrive as much as the rest of our customers. That’s the main reason I accepted the job at Accordance. I love Accordance. I believe in its mission, and I want to do everything I personally can to help the company grow and thrive. While the entire biblical publishing industry has felt a “pinch” during these economic times, Accordance is doing well as a company and isn’t going anywhere. We have plenty of exciting stuff in the pipeline, both on the app/programming front and on the module development front. You’ve already seen some of it this year with some of our new module releases (Teach The Text Bible Commentary, Zuck’s Biblical Theology, etc). Accordance 14’s launch was premature and messy. We’ve already well admitted it, and our programming team has been hard at work resolving many issues as quickly as possible. The 14.0.1-14.0.4 updates already resolved many of the major issues, and we’ll be releasing 14.0.5 shortly. Accordance 14 runs well on my machines where I’m using it daily for my own personal Bible study and to finish up my PhD dissertation without any major “show stopping” issues, and to the point where I’m solely running Accordance 14. There are a handful issues in Accordance 14 we still need to address and are working to address. We’re also working on syncing enhancements and Accordance Cloud so we can fulfill those promises, plus we’re looking into long-term enhancements to Accordance (including Mobile). As we have new information to share with our customers, we’ll provide it. @Sean Nelson and I aren’t programmers, so we’re not able to personally make programming changes to Accordance, but we are in regular communication with our programmers, and we’re both public faces of Accordance (to allow our programmers to spend more time on programming) and try our best to communicate all updates as quickly as possible. Every new bug report that is posted to the forums, I personally test it, and once I have down the steps to reproduce it, I send it off to our teams to ensure it gets addressed in a future update. While our programmers are continuing to work on Accordance’s development, as @Sean Nelson mentioned, we’re continuing to run weekly sales. The majority of our customers are able to successfully run Accordance 14 without major “show stopping” issues. The weekly sales contribute to our programming expenses and ensures our customers have the modules they need at a great price. It would be counterproductive to pause such sales. Customers can choose which sales they wish to participate in., and may of them choose to do so regularly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GYDOF1729 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 @Joe Weaks, did I miss something. I know they are working hard, but where did someone accuse someone else of lying? I also liked the old forums of helping people find verbs, constructs, requesting modules, etc. It seems over the past year, the forums have moved away from these types of engagement and are more of saying we're fixing bugs. I know @Sean Nelson is working hard and conveying good information about sending out a stellar product for the future. Waiting anxiously for Accordance Cloud!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrecht Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 25 minutes ago, Nathan Parker said: Concerning the Windows PC, I didn’t ask anyone to donate a computer to me. The Lord has blessed me just fine. While I could have easily gone out and self-purchased a Windows PC (I’m self-purchasing a new MacBook Air this year), I was provided a Windows PC (at no cost), and I am using it daily to test Accordance for Windows on it. I simply consider it an extra blessing from the Lord, and that’s all I’m going to say on the matter. Hi, Nathan. I was not trying to imply that you had asked someone to donate a PC to you, only that you were waiting to receive it or get it set up or something to that effect. You shared something about this publicly on the forum a while back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristin Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, robrecht said: Hi, Nathan. I was not trying to imply that you had asked someone to donate a PC to you, only that you were waiting to receive it or get it set up or something to that effect. You shared something about this publicly on the forum a while back. My recollection was that Nathan did ask for a donation, but apparently I was wrong. Either way, you are correct that there are lots of threads about him needing to find access to a Windows platform, which he finally got relatively recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Pauley Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 7 hours ago, docdave said: I like the weekly sales emails. Me too please keep them coming! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erhard Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 Personally, Accordance 14 is working quite well for me without any real issues. I still like Accordance better than the other one and believe that V 14 is going to be a great version. I appreciate all the hard work the programming and marketing teams are doing as well as Nathan and Sean interacting with us. We should really be encouraging and thanking them. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pder3571 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 2 hours ago, Sean Nelson said: @pder3571 As an addendum: Per our guidelines posted above, while we do not mind users sharing their concerns, offering constructive criticism, or making requests, we do ask that when you do so you refrain from disparaging the character of others (even if those others are not users but Accordance staff members). We are trying to answer user questions and concerns as best we can. Pretty much any staff member you talk to on this forum was an Accordance user before they were an employee. We all care about user satisfaction and the success of this amazing software. Again, we welcome user input, but insinuating that our staff are lying to you and wishing karmic justice upon us is not appropriate for these forums. Once again, you're not listening, which contradicts your attempted rebuttal that you're answering "questions and concerns as best we can." Moreover, when I wrote, "what comes around, goes around," has nothing to do with "karmic justice." It has to do with divine retribution found in both the Old and New Testaments. "Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap" (Gal. 6:7). Nevertheless, since that does not resonate with you, and you invite "constructive criticism," let me put it to you bluntly. Accordance 14 reeks with dysfunction. Currently, I cannot use Accordance on the computer I am writing this response without "tricking" (for lack of a better word) it, by opening up another application and then moving it off the screen, whereby Microsoft Windows the resizes that app to take up one-half of the screen. Then I can click on Accordance to have it take the other half. But, even at that, Accordance is so buggy that there is no assurance that it will not crash, which means I have to go back to "tricking" it all over again, just have it appear on my screen. Others have reported their dysfunctions, many of which I have experienced, months ago, and yet what is the typical response from Accordance? Everyone is doing the best they can; just hang on until, whenever, and voila! Things will be better, but not until we drag things out until—whenever. Speaking of "appropriate," that is not! It is not appropriate to release a dysfunctional product, which you had to have known of its dysfunctionality, and then keep your customers in limbo for months on end promising them this and that without delivering on the promise in a timely manner. In fact, and further speaking of reeking, that reeks of incompetence. It is also why I wrote by way of analogy, that if Accordance were a plane, an automobile, or an iPhone, it might have taken all of about two weeks before the company would be swimming in lawsuits. So, please, don't be telling me what you think is constructive criticism, appropriate, or what you think I'm wishing, since none of that is a coherent, rational rebuttal of what I et al have been telling you. Instead it is a red herring argument. Are you going to listen this time or come back with a whole school of them next time? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pder3571 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 2 hours ago, Joe Weaks said: Folks, accusing the staff of lying is not a good look for you. I understand frustration. None of you have used Accordance as long as I have. It is helpful to remind myself I don't know all the nuances and difficulties involved. But it's silly to talk like their marketing team is taking away from the development team. And if they say their developing products and relationships with Educational Institutions, insinuating they're lying is nonsensical. I can say for a fact they've landed a site license agreement in the last couple month with at least one educational institution because I was the one who convinced and referred them to go with Accordance! I don't desire to call anyone out. I am just so, so tired of all the negativity in the forums. So, when you convinced whomever "to go with Accordance," did you mention the innumerable problems (i.e. "bugs") in the program, that have existed, now, going on six months (or longer), thereby reducing or eliminating the overall function of the program? Or did you want those persons/institutions to experience them, which in turn, "is not a good look for you"? Moreover, let me ask, if you're "so tired of all the negativity in the forums," just who is responsible for that? Accordance; the company you recommended. So, why recommend something, namely "negativity," that you're so tired of? Or are you assuming that those who believed your message would not be negative, once they started their copy of Accordance, and it would not appear on their screen or function correctly, without "tricking" the program or engaging in some kind of "work around," just to get it to kind of work? And why would you assume that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanHuber Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 @pder3571, this attitude is neither kind nor helpful. I ask you to address others on this forum with the same charity and grace you would want them to show to you. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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