Simple Construct search help/suggestions

[Pastor Jonathan]

I am running a simple construct and wanted to see if there were any other suggestions. 

 

1. I did the search and it searches in the CSB 2017. I would like to change this to search in the NKJV. I searched in the settings, and I could not find how to change this. (ETA: I can do a search of the NKJV using the hit function choosing the NKJV option. But this needs to be done each search, and not a set preference). 

 

2. I am doing a search for three words: Fast, Prayer, and Repentance. I have the words connected with the search Within 1-20 words (which helps me to get an idea of a context in which they are found. 

 

3. I am looking for repent being connected to prayer. Prayer connected to fasting, and repent connected to fast. Is that too many "within" ranges? Would Inter or Agree be a better search? if so, I am trying to use it. How would those be properly used? 

 

Thanks. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Pastor Jonathan
Found a quick solution

[Kristin]

Hi @Pastor Jonathan,

I can't find anything either to set the search results. It seems to just be based off of your default Bible, unless you start from another text and do a construct. That might be your best option is to start the construct by choosing a word in the NKJV, and it will open a NKJV construct. Maybe then save it as a NKJV construct workspace?

I don't think those would be too many WITHIN commands. Maybe another command would be better, but WITHIN would be my thought too.

Kristin

[Pastor Jonathan]

Thank you, @Kristin,

 

I have tried to also adjust the number of words from 20 to 15 to 10, back to 25. I would not want to go more than that because, as with Paul, the topic may change from one text to another. 

 

Thanks again for the advice on the other version as well. I will try that to see what happens. 

[c. stirling bartholomew]

Using a simple construct with NKJV I was able to find hits with fast* and pray* but not with repent* unless you include one false match:

 

Quote

Rev. 3:3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you include false hits like:

 

My strategy when having trouble with zero match returns is to broaden the range and reduce the number of criteria so that some matches appear which can be weeded out.  Reduced criteria and doing multiple searches to cover all the criteria but not in one search, this allows you to identify the reason the search is failing. Then you can shape the search syntax to focus on the problems.

Edited February 20, 2023 by c. stirling bartholomew

[Pastor Jonathan]

55 minutes ago, c. stirling bartholomew said:

Using a simple construct with NKJV I was able to find hits with fast* and pray* but not with repent* unless you include one false match:

 

 

My strategy when having trouble with zero match returns is to broaden the range and reduce the number of criteria so that some matches appear which can be weeded out.  Reduced criteria and doing multiple searches to cover all the criteria but not in one search, this allows you to identify the reason the search is failing. Then you can shape the search syntax to focus on the problems.

Setting up a false match? I am not sure if I am familiar with that. How did you set that up? 

 

So it sounds as though I am going too narrow to start with. I should broaden as well. 

 

@Kristin,

 

I also tried it with other versions. The only two versions I have to select from are the NKJV and the CSB. So knowing I can at least make that adjustment, or do a parallel on it, I believe I can make it work for sure. Thank you for the advice. 

[Lorinda H. M. Hoover]

In terms of your first question, the simple construct will search the translation that has been selected in the search tab that has the "LINK" command in it linking it to the construct. 

 

[mbcvida]

if  you broaden your search scope to chapter rather than verse, does that make a difference?

[Pastor Jonathan]

@mbcvida,

 

I was thinking about the question, and my biggest concern would be making sure it flowed in context, but as I thought about it more, I don't think it would make a difference. 

 

So I need to establish a longer within words. Or is there another way to establish a full chapter search? 

[c. stirling bartholomew]

This is posted to illustrate one possible strategy for satisfying what appears to be your intended purpose.

 

Used two simple construct windows linked with <or> in the search command line.

 

fast* (within 200 words) repent* <or> repent* (within 200 words) fast*

 

Found it only in the TEV (Today"s English Version) of course I only have 11 English versions so who knows there are at least 100 English versions.

 

TEV Joel 2:12 “But even now,” says the LORD, “repent sincerely and return to me with fasting and weeping and mourning.

 

TEV Jonah 3:5 The people of Nineveh believed God’s message. So they decided that everyone should fast, and all the people, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth to show that they had repented.

 

KJV/NKJV produced a false match:

 

Rev. 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

 

Rev. 3:3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you

 

Relevant TOOLS you might find useful:  For New Testament Semantic Domains use Louw & Nida. For searching semantic domains in the Hebrew Bible consult Semantic Dictionary of Biblical Hebrew https://semanticdictionary.org/semdic.php?databaseType=SDBH&language=en

 

https://bible.org/seriespage/chapter-1-fasting-old-testament-and-ancient-judaism-mourning-repentance-and-prayer-hope-g

Edited February 26, 2023 by c. stirling bartholomew

[c. stirling bartholomew]

Searching Louwv& Nida: repentance <or> fasting

 

41.51 ἐπιστρέφωd; ἐπιστροφήb, ῆς f: to change one’s manner of life in a particular direction, with the implication of turning back to God — ‘to change one’s ways, to turn to God, repentance.

 

53.65 νηστεύω; νηστείαa, ας f: to go without food for a set time as a religious duty — ‘to fast, fasting.’
νηστεύω: οἱ δὲ μαθηταί σου οὐ νηστεύουσιν ‘but your disciples do not fast at all’ Mt 9:14.
νηστείαa: νηστείαις καὶ δεήσεσιν λατρεύουσα νύκτα καὶ ἡμέραν ‘day and night she worshiped (God), fasting and praying’ Lk 2:37.

 

These are not very promising results. Perhaps L&N were not considering contextual semantic domains, including scripts, scenarios ... (memory fails) such as are employed in SDBH.  Fasting and Repentance are clearly joined in contextual semantic domains as members of a single scenario. This is perhaps more obvious in the Hebrew Bible than the Greek NT. That may explain the results in L&N which targets the new testament.

 

Over 20 years ago read everything Reinier de Blois wrote about this. The main point of this is to illustrate why searching for English glosses isn't the most reliable strategy for exploring the semantic structure of an Ancient Culture/Language. However, a good Lexicon in English will help you navigate these treacherous exegetical waters. I am not recommending any particular lexicon. Have all of the lexicons. Don't make much use of them.  

Edited February 26, 2023 by c. stirling bartholomew

[Lawrence]

For Q1, open the second version in a new tab. Copy the search string from the first version into the new tab. It should look like [LINK Simple Construct], where "Simple Construct" is the name of the tab containing the construct search setup. When I tried it out, I found that if you have multiple tabs with the same LINK, not all of them change when the construct changes. But if you click in the search box and press <enter>, it will refresh the search to the current contents of the construct tab.

 

For Q3, INTER might help - it lets you specify two words as bookends and a word in the middle.

See <https://accordancefiles2.com/helpfiles/OSX13/content/topics/11_ggtt/the_inter_connecting_item.htm>.

AGREE would probably not help - that's for grammatical agreement (like "Paul" = he, vs "Paul and Silas" = they).

Edited February 26, 2023 by Lawrence

[Pastor Jonathan]

Thank you all for your responses. I will have to log an issue as I am now running into a crash result. 

 

I did the search for fool for Sunday's sermon, and I can scroll a little, and it locks up. It jumps out but then freezes again. 

 

When is 14.0.5 coming? Hopefully it resolves some of this more. 

 

Thanks. 

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

We don’t have an ETA on 14.0.5 yet since our programmers are still actively working on development of it. We’ll keep you posted once we release it.