A place to buy and sell

[Pastor Jonathan]

I wish to bring us back to the point of this thread.

 

I wish for a non Facebook place, or very minimal sign up page, where this idea can germinate.

 

I have my opinions about Gab, and I have equally strong opinion about Facebook.

 

I never joined either, and both have some positive aspects but both are saddled with MAJOR flaws.

 

Between the two I lean toward Gab for many reasons but I will leave that be so I don't start another debate.

 

But one caution I have to everyone, don't be so fast to discard Gab as evil only to sign up for a villian. Both have major issues. Gab's has been stated. But Gab DOES allow free speech which also includes speech we may not like or agree with.

 

I am against the replacement Theology that seems to permeate Gab but I am against the absolute destitute vile wickedness that Facebook supports. They make money off my personal info, so I won't sign up.

 

All that to say, a text based group, I think, is best. Signal is good. Sessions, to me, is better. I just don't want this topic to derail.

 

Hope this is taken in the spirit it is meant. 

[Pastor Jonathan]

1 hour ago, Nathan Parker said:

@Abram K-J makes some great points about Gab. I wasn’t going to heavily go into the discussion, but I’ll add some additional comments here.

 

My social media usage was primarily on Facebook and Twitter in the past (I also had Instagram and WhatsApp, but I never heavily used them, so I closed those accounts). I mainly left both of them due to the privacy issues associated with both. I also left Twitter because it was preventing me from issuing weather updates for the weather company I work for (they kept flagging my account as a “potential spammer”, even though my weather updates were backed with high-end weather data). 

 

For a little bit, I evaluated some of the various alternative social media platforms to see if I could find one with a good balance between user privacy and the ability to easily share weather reports with the community (as that was my main reason to use social media). Some of them I tried include MeWe (which started off decently, and I was even getting some views on weather reports, but I had a lot of technical issues with them), and Gab. I did have some technical issues with Gab as well, but my main issue with it is what @Abram K-J pointed out. It’s one thing for a social network to allow for free speech and even allow for speech I disagree with on their platform. I’ve been going through a PhD program and have been reading plenty of material that I disagree with and that challenges me to think through and formulate my personal views. The biggest issue with Gab is their leadership promotes individuals (on their personal blogs and on their personal Gab pages) that have denied historical events (such as the holocaust, as one of Jewish ancestry whose ancestors escaped Germany before the holocaust, this is a major issue for me personally), among other things that Abram have summarized well. I couldn’t in good faith continue to use the platform, even though their leadership claims to be “Christian”. One thing it did open my eyes to is how much of an issue this is among people who call themselves “Christian”, so I’ve devoted more of my academic efforts to correcting this aberration in the training of ministers and Christians. Some of my friends also used Telegram for messaging, so I used it for a bit, but I had way too many technical issues with it.

 

I’ve left all social media for personal use, and I don’t plan to return. I would only access it if company needs me to periodically access a company social media page for business purposes, and only for business purposes. My life has been far more peaceful without social media (I’ve also “tuned out” of most news and just receive a handful of news headlines each day, plus I’ve scaled back my use of technology in general). I mainly communicate over email and messaging, For now I have Discord to access one of my local HAM club’s chat page, but I don’t even use it much. I also have Signal to access a ministry’s chat page, but I also don’t use it much. I’m a member of a handful of forums (this is one of them) that I interact with users on, as I find specific forums a more useful investment of my time than social media. I also run a personal blog and have also moved all my weather reports to a blog which I’ve found to be more effective than social media.

 

I don’t work for Accordance at the moment, but in the event I ever do have the opportunity to join the Accordance family, I’m not personally opposed to Accordance users doing stuff on social media to help promote Accordance and to interact with other Accordance users on places where the Accordance staff doesn’t have the time or resources to go (such as the Facebook Accordance sales group). With that said, I wouldn’t want users just randomly starting Accordance user groups out on social media that could diverge into off-topic, lower-quality, non-Accordance discussions that could soil Accordance’s reputation. Dr. J and I were members of a Facebook user group for one of our biblical academic memberships, and the discussions on there from so called “biblical scholars” were obscene, vulgar, and nothing even remotely related to “biblical scholarship”. Dr. J and I both quickly left the group. A discussion between Accordance users and Accordance staff would be needed to ensure any Accordance user groups created on social media are clearly identified as “user groups” and not directly affiliated by, administered by, or endorsed by Accordance staff. Some guidance would need to be given to ensure the groups are healthily promoting Accordance without introducing any baggage, and any users who oversee such groups would also need a contact at Accordance staff to report issues that were to arise.

 

None of this is impossible (Nota Bene has an excellent Nota Bene users mailing list I’m a member of, and while not an official mailing list of Nota Bene, it’s still extremely useful), and it’s great that Accordance users are willing to help promote Accordance, but I agree that such things can’t be rushed into. Accordance is a fantastic Bible study app with a solid reputation over the years, and I want to ensure that anything any of us do to promote Accordance truly promotes Accordance and not simply adds unnecessary baggage to the program we all love.

Very well thought out and explained. Thank you.

[Nathan Parker]

@Pastor Jonathan Thanks for the feedback! I’m not personally opposed to seeing some form of “Accordance Resales Group” similar to the one on Facebook but on a platform other than Facebook, or even “Accordance Users Groups” on other social media platforms. I do believe the Accordance user community could do an excellent job promoting Accordance and interacting with other Accordance users on platforms that Accordance staff wouldn’t have the time or resources to setup. At the same time, I also think it’s in the best interests for any such user-created environment suggestions to be run by Accordance staff prior to their setup, and that Accordance staff communicate clear messaging to Accordance users creating these groups so these groups are properly labeled as user-created groups and not official communication channels for Accordance. Accordance would also need to ensure such user-created environments properly reflect Accordance’s well-established reputation. The Facebook user group that reflected the “biblical academic organization” that Dr. J and I both joined and quickly left is an example of a wrong way to implement such a user group. The Nota Bene user mailing list I’m a member of is an example of a successful user group that has positively impacted Nota Bene.

 

I don’t care for Facebook’s stance on privacy, so I won’t be using it, even for an Accordance re-sales group. I’ve made my earlier comments on Gab and why I won’t be using it no matter how much they claim to be “Christian” and support free speech. I know some people have been able to leverage Gab without interacting with some of the other mess on there One of my HAM radio groups uses Gab as a “blog” for their HAM radio group, but I don’t even visit their Gab page to read it. Anything they want me to read they’ll have to email me or message me another way, as I don’t want to subject myself to visiting Gab even to read legitimate content. I personally won’t be returning to any social media platform as I mentioned above. Even if I could find a social media platform that offered me strong user privacy, allowed me to freely post content without becoming a “wild west” of unmoderated content, and worked without major technical issues, I’m personally done with social media unless work requires me to use it solely for work. I’ve found all social media to be not a productive investment of my time. Forums, mailing lists, actual blogs, emails, and a couple of messaging apps work for me. I still get enough interaction without drowning in an ocean of “noise”. Now that I’ve learned to live without social media and 24/7 news dominating my life, I have more time for reading, Bible study, living, and working.

[Pastor Jonathan]

@Nathan Parker,

 

Welcome. I believe we are at the same place. Hence a text message type medium is more to what I would like. I am only signed up to one place...here (and I don't necessarily agree with some of the positions of some on here as well). But this Forum limits how broad we go in our conversations so it keeps it on their desired track, so not a full fledged open arena for discussions.

 

I was just saying to not attack one social media and ignore the other. I also wanted to keep this thread on track. 

 

As I mentioned, I have my issues with Gab: Replacement Theology, Anti-Semitism, History Deniers or revisionists, and Christian Nationalist movement.

 

But Facebook: Is an enemy of the First Amendment (BOR in general), believes in murdering babies, pays for said murder, supports the erosion of our nation and culture, invades personal privacy for profit, and works with those who attack Christians and God given values.

 

So either one is not a place to go. Gab, however, allowes the free exchange of ideas but I can't support the other stuff.

 

But I didn't want there to be a full out attack on Gab, only to run to FaceBook.

 

Our church is on FB, but I never log in. Someone else does. We are on YouTube, but I only use it once a week.

 

I have found the other methods you mention are much better, so we agree. Hence I am pushing for a Signal or Sessions type group (did I mention I prefer Sessions ). 

 

But I default to Benjamin Franklin who said, “I would rather have dangerous freedom, than safety in chains”. Or Patrick Henry, “Give me liberty, or give me death”. FB, supports that which I despise (Google as well) and Gab is off the deep end and I can't support them either.

 

But I don't wish to derail my own thread. I believe, Nathan, we are in the same place. That's what I meant. 

[Nathan Parker]

I’ve found mailing lists to be a good alternative to social media. I’m signed up for a couple of them and have them set to “daily digest” so I only receive one email per day maximum (sometimes not even that). It goes into my inbox (so no additional app/platform to check), and if there’s a discussion I want to jump in, I can quickly email the mailing list with my response.

 

In addition to the Nota Bene mailing list, I’m also a member of CATUG’s mailing list, which I believe has a good amount of Accordance users and even had discount partnership with Accordance in the past. I may message their mailing list and see how many Accordance users are frequenting it still just to generate some more interest in Accordance.

 

If Accordance users were ever to start some form of resales group similar to the one on Facebook, a mailing list would be a useful way to set one up, since as long as one can access email, they can access it.

[Pastor Jonathan]

Either way sounds good. I have never been part of a mailing list but have been part of messaging groups.

 

Perhaps both can be utilized but I don't know about you, my email inbox, without me being careful, can get inundated, LOL.

 

Hence a messenger base sou.DS nice to me.

 

But either way, I am good and will wait to see what happens and hopefully this idea will be utilized somehow. Just let me know about this as well as my DM. Will be glad to help. 

 

Thanks. 

[Enoch]

On 12/8/2022 at 7:00 AM, Abram K-J said:

 

Respectfully, Gab’s obsequious role as a megaphone for anti-Semitic and white supremacist content (all under the disingenous guise of “free speech”) is well documented by now. (A few minutes with a search engine will unearth it; not going to link to anything here.) If that hasn’t already deterred you or Nathan or anyone else from using and promoting Gab, I doubt that anything I say here will convince you that they’re not a value-neutral entity.

 

Because you brought up Gab in this public space, I just wanted to push back. Accordance should really have nothing to do with Gab, in my opinion.

I don't advise Accordance on associating with Gab, but I appreciate Gab because it is basically uncensored. On Twitter I found myself persecuted because I am Christian & not PC, shadow banning.  Gab is free speech, not a guise of "free speech."  & the price of that is that anti-Christian & anti-Semitic material is allowed, as is racist content.  Somebody made a group for anti-Semitic posts in order to have a place to combat them.  You can also be anonymous on Gab without giving Gab your phone number.  There are Christian Gab groups like the Bible and Born-Again Christianity Group.  Gab does have a for sale department.  I could discuss how different branches of Christianity relate to anti-semitism, but I don't think the Accordance Forum would allow it. (Accordance Forum is not Gab!).  The founder of Gab is not value-neutral, but a professing Christian.  IMHO he went too far, however, with free speech as it relates to anti-semitism, though it is free speech.  I would not have mentioned "replacement theology" as now we are getting into denominations, and probably most of us know what is the polar opposite of replacement theology.  But I do not find Gab permeated with replacement theology. It is permeated with free speech.

 

Yeah, slave-owning Patrick Henry said, "Give me liberty or give me death." LOL

Edited December 10, 2022 by Enoch

[Pastor Jonathan]

As I mentioned, lets not derail this thread.

 

I and others have laid out our concerns w/o going too much over TOS and my thread intent was to have a medium where sales can be had without the conglomerate of social media.

 

Newsletter sign ups, OK, if we wish. A chat group on Sessions, excellent. Same on Signal, OK.

 

But not where I have to sign up and give away my every moment privacy.