seaching for a Hebrew word with specific vowels

[Kristin]

I know I have done this before without an issue, but I am drawing a blank on how to find EXACT Hebrew vowels. Equals and quotes seems to find some exact hits with pointing, but not the word I need.

 

For context, I had been searching אדֹנִ֗י pointed exactly like that, but I can't seem to do it. If I search "=אדֹנֶי", I get 4 hits. (notice the vowel under the nun). Since that obviously worked I decided to just paste אדֹנִ֗י over אדֹנֶי preserving the quotes and equals, yet now there are no results? That is obviously not true as it occurs in Ps 110:1.

 

Thank you for any clarification anyone can provide.

 

Kristin

[c. stirling bartholomew]

Quote

I decided to just paste אדֹנִ֗י over אדֹנֶי preserving the quotes and equals, yet now there are no results? That is obviously not true as it occurs in Ps 110:1.

Re: אדֹנִ֗י I duplicated (verified) your results in older versions of Hebrew Bible. I used search all on לַאדֹנִי and found it. It appears that the problem is the yod which is a suffix in Psalm 110. 

Edited May 21, 2022 by c. stirling bartholomew

[Kristin]

Hi @c. stirling bartholomew, If I am understanding correctly, if you search for ="אדֹנִ֗י" in an older version, you do get a list of verses? If so, could you paste them here so I can proceed with work?

 

Given what you said about it working in older versions, and if I did in fact search it correctly, it sounds like this might be a bug?

 

@Tech Support, can you look into this?

[Kristin]

Oh, I just realized that I misread what you wrote. I re-read it and I think you are saying that you can't get results either. If that is so, I don't think it has to do with unicode, because otherwise searching other vowels would not work. Sorry for misreading it above.

[c. stirling bartholomew]

22 minutes ago, Kristin said:

Oh, I just realized that I misread what you wrote. I re-read it and I think you are saying that you can't get results either. If that is so, I don't think it has to do with unicode, because otherwise searching other vowels would not work. Sorry for misreading it above.

I was still in the process of unraveling the problem. It turns out to be simply an issue with literal strings in Hebrew texts. A suffix requires a different search strategy. I am Greek guy, Hebrew searching isn't like Greek. You could not simply quote a suffix in Hebrew along with the substantive. Search all will find you what you are looking for and display the correct syntax for the search. I am using Accord 9x so I can't tell you were Search all appears in your version. 

[Kristin]

I find searching Greek easier as well. Given what you wrote I decided to do a construct search to capture the vowel, but then when it actually ran the search it totally disregarded the vowels. I am not sure if I am doing something wrong or if this is a bug.

 

[c. stirling bartholomew]

In Hebrew construct You need to use inflect rather than lex. You are making work for yourself. Display Psalm 110:1. Select לַאדֹנִי and pull down the amplify menu and select "search" the key board short cut is command option F (Mac OS). This will generate the correct syntax for the search of a substantive with a suffix.

It will find a broader scope of texts but it will include Psalm 110:1. Adjustments need to be made for Accord 13x. Hebrew searching is tricky. I am currently studying Aramaic in Daniel so I have been working in HMT-T a lot recently. The way Accordance handles literal strings in Hebrew and Aramaic is quite different than Greek and takes me for ever to sort it out. No expert on this just have a long term familiarity with work arounds like the Search command.

Edited May 21, 2022 by c. stirling bartholomew

[c. stirling bartholomew]

It is not a bug. It is the way things work. The experts are all enjoying their weekend. I only engage for the purpose of the learning involved in the trying to explain what is going on. I have vision problems and was unable to view your image posted of the construct window. Form what I can see it looks correct. 

 

 

The abstract issue here is tokenization.  The Hebrew/Aramaic searches involve identifying tokens as they are represented in the tagged texts. The search command is a handy short cut for discovering how the tokens are separated. It produces the syntax for the search and displays it tokenized in the search window. 

 

אדֹנִ The vowel point under nun is part of the suffix which is why you cannot search for it as a literal string. This is Construct inflected form =אדֹן doesn't include the vowel point under nun. You could add a suffix argument after and a inflect under suffix =ִי. All of this work is accomplished simply using the search command. Answering this was helpful for me. I am not an expert on Hebrew obviously. 

Edited May 21, 2022 by c. stirling bartholomew

[Kristin]

Hi @c. stirling bartholomew,

Thank you for the explanation and for your help. I had been in a meeting, but I finally had the chance to try the search command like you mentioned, and it brought it up fine with the vowels. Thank you again for your help.

Sincerely,
Kristin