Which Hebrew Bible?

[A. Smith]

I've got at least 6 Hebrew, apparently MT, bibles in my library (not counting BHQ). For the life of me, I cannot discern what text these bibles are. One is BHS untagged. Fine. The others seem identical [Hebrew Bible (Biblia Hebraica Tagged), Biblia Hebraica Stutgartensia Tagged, Hebrew Bible (BHS) Tagged, BHS (ETCBC) *AND* BHS (ETCBC Apparatus). This last one actually isn't an apparatus, despite the name. There is a separate apparatus. To make matters even more confusing, the name of the module in the library and the little abbreviation that shows in the text window don't always correspond so I can't even tell which text I've got open sometimes. There is no readme I can find and the website is no help. What is the difference in these texts????? Why is there so little information about them available from accordance????

[Brian K. Mitchell]

Greetings A. Smith

 

This question comes up every now and then see:

 

[Brian K. Mitchell]

 

 

[Brian K. Mitchell]

1 hour ago, A. Smith said:

To make matters even more confusing, the name of the module in the library and the little abbreviation that shows in the text window don't always correspond

Yes, I agree! The library view is a little better because you can see an icon, but the in "add parallel" drop down menu many the names look the same.

One, thing to do is when you have a Hebrew text open you can go to

(1) Help

(2) About text 

and you should be provided with some information about the module you have opened.

[Jordan S]

I made a little chart. Maybe it will be helpful. **Note that the Syntax is sold separately.** So, HMT-W4 and MT-ETCBC have the potential for syntax. Historically, combining the apparatus and the syntax in a single text caused issues, so they were kept separate which is the reason for multiple Bibles. You have may have some older module names too, like BHS-W4. The HMT-W4 replaced it when the syntax came along, at least, I think that's the case. 

 

[Brian W. Davidson]

Great, Jordan!

 

You could add another column to note that the text itself, the transcription, is ever so slightly different between BHS and Westminster, maybe ETC, too.

[Fabian]

5 minutes ago, Jordan S said:

I made a little chart. Maybe it will be helpful. **Note that the Syntax is sold separately.** So, HMT-W4 and MT-ETCBC have the potential for syntax. Historically, combining the apparatus and the syntax in a single text caused issues, so they were kept separate which is the reason for multiple Bibles. You have may have some older module names too, like BHS-W4. The HMT-W4 replaced it when the syntax came along, at least, I think that's the case. 

 

Can we have the new Westminster Morph 4.22 for the BHS-T and the HMT-W4?

And there is a Syntax from the Groves Center also. https://www.grovescenter.org/projects/westminster-hebrew-syntax/

Edited March 16, 2022 by Fabian

[Brian K. Mitchell]

 

The five main or most common digital Hebrew Bibles modules in Accordance (description taken from verbatim from the store):

 

(1a) Biblia Hebraica with Westminster Hebrew Morph 4  (HMT-W4 )
The complete text of the Hebrew Bible, following the Biblia Hebraica Leningradensis, with the Groves-Wheeler Westminster Hebrew Morphology 4.20. This module includes vowel pointing, cantillation marks, and lemma and grammatical tagging information for each word in the text. The text is almost identical to the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia.
https://accordancebible.com/product/biblia-hebraica-with-westminster-hebrew-morph-4/

 

(1b) Grammatical Syntax add-on to HMT-W4
This Hebrew Syntax module was developed from the ground up for Accordance. It adds several features and enhancements, allowing you to:
View a color-coded Hebrew syntax tree in parallel with your Bible
Hover over HMT-W4 words to see their syntactical tags in Instant Details
Search the HMT-W4 using syntactical tags
Drag and drop syntactical tags within the Hebrew Construct window
Currently includes the entire Hebrew Bible with the exception of Isaiah 7-39, 56-66. Free upgrades are planned as additional books are completed, and eventually the entire Hebrew Bible will be available.
About This Product:
Syntax tagging supervised by Dr. Robert Holmstedt, University of Toronto, ON, CANADA Assisted by: Dr. John Cook, Peter Bekins, Dr. Richard Benton, Jarod Jacobs, Andrew Jones, Matthew Lanser, Anthony Meyer, John Screnock, and Dr. Raoul Comninos. The assistance of Dr. Martin Abegg and Dr. Roy Brown in the development of the data is gratefully acknowledged. Copyright ©2018 OakTree Software, Inc.

https://accordancebible.com/product/grammatical-syntax-add-on-to-hmt-w4/

 

(2) Hebrew Masoretic Text with Andersen-Forbes Morphology and Syntax Database (MT-AFD )
This unique Hebrew database is the result of over 50 years of continued development and over one year of effort just to be integrated into the Accordance Bible Software Library.The Andersen-Forbes database contains advanced morphology and syntax for each word in the Hebrew Bible, based upon the research of Francis I. Andersen and A. Dean Forbes for the last 50 years. This database contains many special features such as word semantic tagging and detailed analysis of the grammatical and linguistic structure of the Hebrew Bible.
https://accordancebible.com/product/andersen-forbes-syntax-database/

 

(3) Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia with ETCBC Morphology (WIVU) and Syntax
The ETCBC Advanced database of the Hebrew Bible (formerly known as WIVU database), contains the scholarly text of the Hebrew Bible with linguistic markup developed by the Werkgroep Informatica at the Free University (WIVU) of Amsterdam and edited by Eep Talstra of the Eep Talstra Centre for Bible and Computer (ETCBC).
Eep Talstra was the founder of the Eep Talstra Centre for Bible and Computer. The centre was previously known as the Werkgroep Informatica Vrije Universiteit (WIVU), was renamed in honor of Eep Talstra when he retired in 2012.
https://accordancebible.com/product/hebrew-masoretic-text-with-etcbc-morphology-wivu-with-syntax/

 

 

(4) Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia with Apparatus and tagging (BHS-T )
The complete text of the Hebrew Bible, following the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia, with the Groves-Wheeler Westminster Hebrew Morphology 4.14. This module includes vowel pointing, cantillation marks, and lemma and grammatical tagging information for each word in the text.
The BHS Apparatus is included with this purchase, and the text is marked with the sigla for the notations in the apparatus
https://accordancebible.com/product/biblia-hebraica-stuttgartensia-with-apparatus-and-tagging/

 

 

(5) Biblia Hebraica Quinta (7-Fascicle Set) (BHQ-7 ) (Lacks morphology tagging)

This edition will succeed the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia (BHS) (1977). The aim is to provide an edition with a completely new critical apparatus to the Hebrew (Masoretic) text, accompanied by a commentary volume in which the most difficult cases are treated.

This edition is produced for serious students of the Hebrew Bible. It aims to provide them with a clear presentation of the surviving evidence of the text’s transmission that is relevant for translation and exegesis.

The current fascicles are edited by Adrian Schenker et al. This bundle contains these fascicles (each of which is also available for individual purchase):

• Fascicle 1: Genesis
• Fascicle 5: Deuteronomy
• Fascicle 7: Judges
• Fascicle 13: The Twelve Minor Prophets
• Fascicle 17: Proverbs
• Fascicle 18: Megilloth (Ruth, Canticles, Qoheleth, Lamentations, Esther)
• Fascicle 20: Ezra and Nehemiah

https://accordancebible.com/product/biblia-hebraica-quinta-7-fascicle-set/

 

 

BONUS: In my opinion If you are using an e-text or printed text based on the Leningrad Codex you are simply going to have to acquire images of codex to double check your printed BHS/BHS and your digital text from time to time. The Leningrad codex facsimile released in 1998 was beautiful but way to bulky too carry around. Now, with Accordance you can have the images on your laptop, tablet, or even your smartphone in your pocket!

 

(6) Leningrad Codex Images / Pub. West Semitic Research

Requires Accordance 10.4 or above.

 

The Leningrad Codex is the oldest complete manuscript (1008 CE) of the Hebrew Bible and the primary basis of modern editions such as Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia and the Biblia Hebraica Quinta. Working with the West Semitic Research Project, we have now incorporated nearly 1,000 images from the Leningrad Codex to be examined in parallel with any biblical text from within an Accordance workspace.

Product Details

• Editors: Bruce Zuckerman
• Publisher: West Semitic Research
• Bible Book: Old Testament
• Level: Academic
• Categories: Photo Collections
• Min Acc Version: 10.4

https://accordancebible.com/product/leningrad-codex-images/

Edited March 16, 2022 by Brian K. Mitchell

[c. stirling bartholomew]

One thing that might help disambiguate this topic would be to list a few syntax tags to help the reader to distinguish them from the kind of tagging that was done eons ago in the dawn of textual tagging era. This may be buried somewhere in the promotional material for the syntax module but it isn't something you can visualize while reading these descriptions of the different modules. 

 

A more demanding question: What sort of framework were the creators of the syntax data working within while compiling the structure of their syntax module?   I have only read a few brief segments of papers where I noticed a number of familiar terms from now rather dated theoretical models. I recall the reaction 30 years ago when Waltke-O'Conner was published that it was employing "structuralism"  and the people complaining were engaged in one or another form of "Functionalism"  and now here we are thirty years down the road and we find what looks like ideas or at least terminology from some form of "Functionalism" when that was something that happened a generation ago and is already history. 

Edited March 16, 2022 by c. stirling bartholomew

[Fabian]

47 minutes ago, c. stirling bartholomew said:

One thing that might help disambiguate this topic would be to list a few syntax tags to help the reader to distinguish them from the kind of tagging that was done eons ago in the dawn of textual tagging era. This may be buried somewhere in the promotional material for the syntax module but it isn't something you can visualize while reading these descriptions of the different modules. 

 

A more demanding question: What sort of framework were the creators of the syntax data working within while compiling the structure of their syntax module?   I have only read a few brief segments of papers where I noticed a number of familiar terms from now rather dated theoretical models. I recall the reaction 30 years ago when Waltke-O'Conner was published that it was employing "structuralism"  and the people complaining were engaged in one or another form of "Functionalism"  and now here we are thirty years down the road and we find what looks like ideas or at least terminology from some form of "Functionalism" when that was something that happened a generation ago and is already history. 

There was on the old website PDFs. I requested to make them available again. 

[A. Smith]

On 3/16/2022 at 5:03 PM, Brian K. Mitchell said:

 

The five main or most common digital Hebrew Bibles modules in Accordance (description taken from verbatim from the store):

 

(1a) Biblia Hebraica with Westminster Hebrew Morph 4  (HMT-W4 )
The complete text of the Hebrew Bible, following the Biblia Hebraica Leningradensis, with the Groves-Wheeler Westminster Hebrew Morphology 4.20. This module includes vowel pointing, cantillation marks, and lemma and grammatical tagging information for each word in the text. The text is almost identical to the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia.
https://accordancebible.com/product/biblia-hebraica-with-westminster-hebrew-morph-4/

 

(1b) Grammatical Syntax add-on to HMT-W4
This Hebrew Syntax module was developed from the ground up for Accordance. It adds several features and enhancements, allowing you to:
View a color-coded Hebrew syntax tree in parallel with your Bible
Hover over HMT-W4 words to see their syntactical tags in Instant Details
Search the HMT-W4 using syntactical tags
Drag and drop syntactical tags within the Hebrew Construct window
Currently includes the entire Hebrew Bible with the exception of Isaiah 7-39, 56-66. Free upgrades are planned as additional books are completed, and eventually the entire Hebrew Bible will be available.
About This Product:
Syntax tagging supervised by Dr. Robert Holmstedt, University of Toronto, ON, CANADA Assisted by: Dr. John Cook, Peter Bekins, Dr. Richard Benton, Jarod Jacobs, Andrew Jones, Matthew Lanser, Anthony Meyer, John Screnock, and Dr. Raoul Comninos. The assistance of Dr. Martin Abegg and Dr. Roy Brown in the development of the data is gratefully acknowledged. Copyright ©2018 OakTree Software, Inc.

https://accordancebible.com/product/grammatical-syntax-add-on-to-hmt-w4/

 

(2) Hebrew Masoretic Text with Andersen-Forbes Morphology and Syntax Database (MT-AFD )
This unique Hebrew database is the result of over 50 years of continued development and over one year of effort just to be integrated into the Accordance Bible Software Library.The Andersen-Forbes database contains advanced morphology and syntax for each word in the Hebrew Bible, based upon the research of Francis I. Andersen and A. Dean Forbes for the last 50 years. This database contains many special features such as word semantic tagging and detailed analysis of the grammatical and linguistic structure of the Hebrew Bible.
https://accordancebible.com/product/andersen-forbes-syntax-database/

 

(3) Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia with ETCBC Morphology (WIVU) and Syntax
The ETCBC Advanced database of the Hebrew Bible (formerly known as WIVU database), contains the scholarly text of the Hebrew Bible with linguistic markup developed by the Werkgroep Informatica at the Free University (WIVU) of Amsterdam and edited by Eep Talstra of the Eep Talstra Centre for Bible and Computer (ETCBC).
Eep Talstra was the founder of the Eep Talstra Centre for Bible and Computer. The centre was previously known as the Werkgroep Informatica Vrije Universiteit (WIVU), was renamed in honor of Eep Talstra when he retired in 2012.
https://accordancebible.com/product/hebrew-masoretic-text-with-etcbc-morphology-wivu-with-syntax/

 

 

(4) Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia with Apparatus and tagging (BHS-T )
The complete text of the Hebrew Bible, following the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia, with the Groves-Wheeler Westminster Hebrew Morphology 4.14. This module includes vowel pointing, cantillation marks, and lemma and grammatical tagging information for each word in the text.
The BHS Apparatus is included with this purchase, and the text is marked with the sigla for the notations in the apparatus
https://accordancebible.com/product/biblia-hebraica-stuttgartensia-with-apparatus-and-tagging/

 

 

(5) Biblia Hebraica Quinta (7-Fascicle Set) (BHQ-7 ) (Lacks morphology tagging)

This edition will succeed the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia (BHS) (1977). The aim is to provide an edition with a completely new critical apparatus to the Hebrew (Masoretic) text, accompanied by a commentary volume in which the most difficult cases are treated.

This edition is produced for serious students of the Hebrew Bible. It aims to provide them with a clear presentation of the surviving evidence of the text’s transmission that is relevant for translation and exegesis.

The current fascicles are edited by Adrian Schenker et al. This bundle contains these fascicles (each of which is also available for individual purchase):

• Fascicle 1: Genesis
• Fascicle 5: Deuteronomy
• Fascicle 7: Judges
• Fascicle 13: The Twelve Minor Prophets
• Fascicle 17: Proverbs
• Fascicle 18: Megilloth (Ruth, Canticles, Qoheleth, Lamentations, Esther)
• Fascicle 20: Ezra and Nehemiah

https://accordancebible.com/product/biblia-hebraica-quinta-7-fascicle-set/

 

 

BONUS: In my opinion If you are using an e-text or printed text based on the Leningrad Codex you are simply going to have to acquire images of codex to double check your printed BHS/BHS and your digital text from time to time. The Leningrad codex facsimile released in 1998 was beautiful but way to bulky too carry around. Now, with Accordance you can have the images on your laptop, tablet, or even your smartphone in your pocket!

 

(6) Leningrad Codex Images / Pub. West Semitic Research

Requires Accordance 10.4 or above.

 

The Leningrad Codex is the oldest complete manuscript (1008 CE) of the Hebrew Bible and the primary basis of modern editions such as Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia and the Biblia Hebraica Quinta. Working with the West Semitic Research Project, we have now incorporated nearly 1,000 images from the Leningrad Codex to be examined in parallel with any biblical text from within an Accordance workspace.

Product Details

• Editors: Bruce Zuckerman
• Publisher: West Semitic Research
• Bible Book: Old Testament
• Level: Academic
• Categories: Photo Collections
• Min Acc Version: 10.4

https://accordancebible.com/product/leningrad-codex-images/

This is actually what led to my post. Numbers 2-3 don't say what the actual text base is, unless I've missed something. Apparently I also had some older, out of date texts in my library. The other poster referenced in the replica have helped. Thank you. 

 

TBH, I do think this issue is nowhere near as clear as it could be in the store. I don't see why someone should have to complete a chart to make clear what's actually being purchased. I recognize that the state of the OT text is entirely different than that of the NT, but the descriptions of these texts could mention the text base and clear things up and/ or some of the distinctive (such as including both Q and K readings in the text, which no other hebrew E text I'm aware of does).

[A. Smith]

It seems that the only difference between the two ETCBC modules is one is keyed to an apparatus and the other is not? 

[Fabian]

4 minutes ago, A. Smith said:

It seems that the only difference between the two ETCBC modules is one is keyed to an apparatus and the other is not? 

Not exactly. The Apparatus kills the Syntax. You have decide which additional resource of this both you need.

[Brian K. Mitchell]

On 3/17/2022 at 8:18 AM, c. stirling bartholomew said:

A more demanding question: What sort of framework were the creators of the syntax data working within while compiling the structure of their syntax module? 

 

See the two following post:

and...

 

[brazyl]

On 3/17/2022 at 2:58 PM, A. Smith said:

TBH, I do think this issue is nowhere near as clear as it could be in the store. I don't see why someone should have to complete a chart to make clear what's actually being purchased. I recognize that the state of the OT text is entirely different than that of the NT, but the descriptions of these texts could mention the text base and clear things up and/ or some of the distinctive (such as including both Q and K readings in the text, which no other hebrew E text I'm aware of does).

You can double-check this by comparing the descriptions in the Accordance web site with descriptions somewhere else, but my impression is that the descriptions are generally written by the publisher.   (Maybe always—or maybe I'm wrong and it's only occasionally the case that they use the publisher's description, but I doubt it.)  

One might expect the description to be written by the people at Accordance, but I imagine that (1) they are probably afraid to introduce any particular point of view of various theological points of view, and (2) it's a lot of work to write descriptions and they'd prefer to avoid that work.  So if you are expecting the descriptions to be helpful in comparing texts, I think you're likely to be disappointed.  Unfortunately.

 

I could be wrong.  I've only compared descriptions for a few things, but when I've compared what is on this web site with what is on Amazon, it has been more or less the same.