keys and verse numbers

[Kristin]

I am actually not sure if I should be posting this in languages or in tech support. I  had actually been looking for hits of key G2743 which is καγω and one of the hits was Rev 2:27, but I could not find it in the Greek. So I opened up the new NIV so it would show me where the word was, but it is actually only linking to the ESV and not to the Greek. I then noticed that it is not just καγω missing,  but the actual Greek verse seems to be about half the length of the verse in the ESV and NIV.

 

So I created a picture and was going to ask what I was missing, and then it occurred to me that the "rest of the verse" is actually found in the next verse, of Rev 2:28. While the KJV sometimes has verse issues, I am not sure why the ESV and NIV are disagreeing with the verses of NA28. Am I missing something? It is also worth noting that a search for G2743 shows Rev 2:27, but not Rev 2:28.

 

Kristin

 

[Ken Simpson]

Hmm, not seeing this on my iPad Kristin, can you post the text versions you are using? (And remember G3284 Is a G/K number not a Strongs number so it won’t be found in the ESVS text. )

 

 

[Kristin]

Hi @Ken Simpson

Yes, you are correct about the key! I just messed it up. I had meant that I was using [KEY G2504], which is Strongs for καγω. If you search the ESV for [KEY G2504] it shows καγω as translated as "I" with the word next to it, so I opened the Greek to see what was going on and realized that it was not in the verse at all.

 

As far as the text, you mean the ESV? In case it helps, here is a screenshot. It shows that the ESV Rev 2:27 keeps going after the "in pieces" part, while that is where the Greek ends. The Greek continues in the next verse, but I have never had this issue before with the ESV not matching the Greek.

 

[Ken Simpson]

ESV is following RSV which is following KJV which used the TR. (whatever TR really means). The TR we have in accordance shows that the καγω is in v27. I am confident that you will find other (though rare) places where this will be the case.

 

 

[Kristin]

Hi Ken,

Thanks for explaining. That is surprising as when I import a user Bible I need to choose if I am using KJV or ESV numbering. Likewise, following the TR (textus receptus...) is sort of odd since the ESV is not based on it. In any case though, you must be correct as the ESV, NIV, and KJV all agree with the numbering, and then the NET is alone following the GNT-28.

 

Thank you for the clarification.

Kristin

 

 

 

[Kristin]

2 hours ago, Ken Simpson said:

ESV is following RSV which is following KJV which used the TR....

 

Hi Ken, I have been giving it a lot of thought and the more I think about it the more confused I get. Would you mind explaining why I need to choose if I am following ESV or KJV mapping when I am importing a User Bible, if ultimately the verses are the same? I feel like they can't be the same since the ESV lacks certain verse numbers the KJV has, but then at the same time, it really does seem to be following the KJV given the example of Rev 2:27. I am really new to User Bibles and so the mapping is sort of confusing me.

[Ken Simpson]

Sorry to cause confusion Kristin.  To be Hines I am not sure why that choice would need to be made, though the ESV does omit the first part of John 8 and the comma Johanneum (last part of 1 joh 5:7 and first part of v8). 
 

However, that’s a complete guess on my part,  the team who do the collation of the Bible texts will need to speak directly to that question.

 

I’ll watch with interest for the answer as well. 

[Ken Simpson]

5 hours ago, Kristin said:

following the TR (textus receptus...) is sort of odd since the ESV is not based on it

Yes that’s true for the text. They used the eclectic text, and made their own alternate reading decisions (not many) but the versification system (as far as I understand it anyway ) was followed because they wanted to stay in the RSV tradition. It used to be all in the preface, but I haven’t read that form looong time. 

[Kristin]

7 hours ago, Ken Simpson said:

....I’ll watch with interest for the answer as well. 

 

Hi Ken,

Thank you for the clarification. If you learn anything, let me know, but I am truly just curious. It does not affect my work or anything.

 

On a side note, the ESV does contain Jn 8:1-11, it is just in brackets. That is true about 1Jn 7-8, but even hear the numbering is the same since both the ESV and KJV agree on the verse numbers.

 

When thinking of a KJV exclusive verse such as Mt 17:21 for example, here the ESV does omit it. If you type “Mt 17:21” into the ESV an error message will appear. If you type Mt 17:20 it shows a dash where Mt 17:21 would be….. oh. Actually it only does that with the Greek or KJV open. if you close those it just skips the verse. So I suppose that might be the answer.

 

There was this ESV mapping User Bible I had imported, and while I normally try to change it to the ESV, there is one I think I forgot to do and just mapped it as the default of KJV. I have thus been concerned what would happen. I think, though I am not sure, I think if I import a Bible following the ESV and accidentally set it to the KJV, really all it will do is show the “missing” verses as a verse with nothing in it, as opposed to only showing a line in parallel. I suppose.

 

Thank you again,

Kristin