User Bible with Vulgate versification doesn't align with Vulgate

[jlm]

After receiving files for some Vetus Latina MSS from another user, I imported them into Accordance using the default (KJV) verification. I then went to John 6 to check the verse alignment with the Vulgate, because that chapter has one more verse in the Vulgate than it does in the KJV. There I found that the Bezae was numbered like the KJV (and GNT), but codices Veronensis and Vercellensis had the verses numbered like the Vulgate. No problem, I thought, I'll just reimport those two with the Vulgate versification. So I did, setting the versification to "Latin Vulgate-Tagged". I then displayed them in parallel with the Latin Vulgate-Tagged, and discovered that they still didn't align.

 

I can't understand how mapping John 6:52 from VULG-T to a User Bible which uses VULG-T for versification, Accordance could possibly wind up with anything other than John 6:52. Yet, it gives me 6:51. Is there any explanation for this? More importantly, how can I get the verses to align properly?

 

 

Accordance 13.0.5, macOS 10.14.6.

[Fabian]

Hello jlm

 

It seems the Vulg-T is not mapped correct. 

 

The - - which came if you set the KJV in parallel are on the verse above instead one below. To match the content correct. 

 

 

Because the Vulg-T has the verse 51 in two separate verses the - - should be in verse 51 not a verse 50. 

 

This is a case for Mark Allison. Thanks to him for correcting this.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian

Edited April 23, 2020 by Fabian

[jlm]

Checking John 6:1 revealed the problem: it doesn't align because John 5 ends with a verse numbered 48. The extra verse throws Accordance off, and instead of displaying a warning or error, it just makes a User Bible that doesn't align. This is part of what I call fragility in the importer.

 

The problem is that the text has numbered John 5:4 as verse 5, the following verse as 6, and so on, numbering John 5:47 as 5:48. I'll fix this.

 

Another case of fragility is what happens if you have a verse with no content, like what you get when you export from BibleWorks:

 

Joh 5:4

Joh 5:5 erat autem quidam homo ibi triginta et octo annos habens in infirmitate sua

 

In this case, it reads right past the end of the line and makes John 5:5 the content of John 5:4, throwing things off. You have to give the verse some content, like "-", or delete the verse number. But if you delete too many verse numbers, you'll wind up with a text that won't import.

 

Update:

Something weirder is going on. The file has the verses numbered correctly, but the verse numbers of the imported file are incorrect:

Joh 5:3  In his decumbebant turbae infirmorum, caecorum, claudorum, aridorum, paralyticorum spectantium aquae motum.

Joh 5:4  Angelus autem Domini descende.. at: et movebat aquam. Et quicumque prior descendebat in natatoria, sanus fiebat quaecumquae tenebatur infirmitate.

Joh 5:5  Erat autem ibi homo XXXVIII annos habens in infirmitate sua.

 

It's Accordance that has decided to number 5:4 as 5:5, 5:5 as 5:6, etc.

 

Since I've already spent more time than I can spare, I just going to leave this, at least for today.

Edited April 23, 2020 by jlm

[Fabian]

Checking John 6:1 revealed the problem: it doesn't align because John 5 ends with a verse numbered 48. The extra verse throws Accordance off, and instead of displaying a warning or error, it just makes a User Bible that doesn't align. This is part of what I call fragility in the importer.

 

The problem is that the text has numbered John 5:4 as verse 5, the following verse as 6, and so on, numbering John 5:47 as 5:48. I'll fix this.

 

Another case of fragility is what happens if you have a verse with no content, like what you get when you export from BibleWorks:

 

Joh 5:4

Joh 5:5 erat autem quidam homo ibi triginta et octo annos habens in infirmitate sua

 

In this case, it reads right past the end of the line and makes John 5:5 the content of John 5:4, throwing things off. You have to give the verse some content, like "-", or delete the verse number. But if you delete too many verse numbers, you'll wind up with a text that won't import.

Yes the John 5,4 was also my first thought. 

 

But there is still a bug between the KJV and the Vulg-T. Also if you have the KJV and the Vulg-T in parallel the verse 6,51 is missing in the Vulg-T.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian

[Fabian]

It depends: Accordance made some changes in 12.3 at my request. 

 

Since then if the verse mapping has no John 5,4 then there hasn't to be one in the imported Bible. So you have to delete the empty verse from the export from BW.

 

Or choose a verse mapping that match it.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian

Edited April 23, 2020 by Fabian

[Fabian]

jlm 

 

Check also Acts 7,59 and 60. The Bezae has no verse 60. So you have to add it or use another verse mapping.

 

The Vulg-T has also other bugs. 

 

Greetings

 

Fabian

Edited April 23, 2020 by Fabian

[jlm]

I came back to this today, using BibleMultiConverter to find the right versification to use. It took a little while to get it working, but finding a versification is really a job for a computer, because otherwise its easy to miss the fact a Bible doesn't exactly match. After I imported the verse lists of half-a-dozen Bibles, I found that either VULGATE or DOUAY will work for Codex Vercellensis as exported from BibleWorks. Ang Biblia and KJVS are each missing John 6:72 and Mark 8:39, while VULG-T is missing Matt. 23:14 and John 5:4. Other Bibles I tried were missing stil more.

 

PS This thread was eye-opening for what Accordance means by versification. I thought it was just a question of how verse numbers map to other Bibles. I didn't realize it was also a matter of which verse numbers are included and excluded. BibleWorks verse mapping is simpler, although the problem it solves is a bit different, because BW doesn't display whole texts in parallel, just individual verses.

[Fabian]

PS This thread was eye-opening for what Accordance means by versification. I thought it was just a question of how verse numbers map to other Bibles. I didn't realize it was also a matter of which verse numbers are included and excluded. BibleWorks verse mapping is simpler, although the problem it solves is a bit different, because BW doesn't display whole texts in parallel, just individual verses.

And if you understand that the verse mapping is one, but the content is also another case, then it is also more complex.

 

 

I came back to this today, using BibleMultiConverter to find the right versification to use. It took a little while to get it working, but finding a versification is really a job for a computer, because otherwise its easy to miss the fact a Bible doesn't exactly match. After I imported the verse lists of half-a-dozen Bibles, I found that either VULGATE or DOUAY will work for Codex Vercellensis as exported from BibleWorks. Ang Biblia and KJVS are each missing John 6:72 and Mark 8:39, while VULG-T is missing Matt. 23:14 and John 5:4. Other Bibles I tried were missing stil more.

Ah great it was a help for you. Michael worked hard. I have my own manual for the BMC, but it is not fully ready. 

 

Greetings

 

Fabian