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What is my mistake?


Mendel
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I am using the ETCBC and want to find all Verbs referring to Abraham.

Here is my construction:

post-35970-0-74362900-1580856985_thumb.jpg

 

In the results I marked the verbs that are not caught by the search. What is my mistake?

 

post-35970-0-67108900-1580857011_thumb.jpg

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Open the syntax chart in parallel with the Hebrew. I usually do this with syntax in case I need to see how the syntax db is modelling the text.

In this case it looks like אַבְרָהָ֛ם is not modelled as the subject of the later verbs (taking Gen 17:17) as an example. Same sort of thing in 17:23 only it looks like the syntax considers it a completely different sentence.

I'm not sure enough of my Hebrew to offer much else but the charts appear to show it this way.

 

I'd probably cross-check at SHEBANQ and see whether the same result happens there. But it's been a while since I've used it so I'll have to remember my login :)

 

Sorry, also, the syntax chart doesn't necessarily identify that the subject found is the subject of the verb found. You can end up with subjects and verbs which are not related, particularly with a large depth value. (I hit this while trying to recast your query in the Holmstedt syntax.) I rarely use unlimited depth values. I usually try with it set to 0 or 1 and then increase from there once my basic query is working.

 

Thx

D

Edited by דָנִיאֶל
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Yes, never begin with depth set to infinity (and beyond!). Always start small and increase slowly. 
 

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Oh, and looking at the results, the verbs you marked are not syntactically associated with Abraham. You are looking for discourse based participant reference in a syntax database. Does ETCBC do that? (Ours does not, for good reasons.)

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Oh, and looking at the results, the verbs you marked are not syntactically associated with Abraham. You are looking for discourse based participant reference in a syntax database. Does ETCBC do that? (Ours does not, for good reasons.)

 

What is the logic behind it that ויצחק in Gen. 17:17 is not syntactically associated with Abraham ?

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I cannot speak for the ETCBC database, only ours. There is no overt subject in the clause in which ויצחק is the verb. The syntactic subject in that clause is a null pronoun that is only linked to Abraham of the previous clause by a discourse operation. That kind of linking would have been not only an enormous additional amount of work, it is often subjective and, more importantly, moved us beyond syntax and so was explicitly excluded in the syntax database. 

 

You may want to read the supporting documents for our syntax database, where I discuss the linguistic theory and decisions behind the database. 

Edited by Robert Holmstedt
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