Syriac lexicon for Accordance

[jlm]

Is there a lexicon of Syriac available for Accordance? I would like something more detailed than the glosses in the tagged Peshitta.

[piotrj]

unfortunately nothing I know about

it would great instead to have Payne-Smith available. and Sokoloff too.

[TYA]

+1 for Syriac lexicons

[TYA]

A note about Syriac lexicons:  Most of them, including Payne-Smith, Jennings, are either in Serto-a script, or Estrangela at best.  That would take a knowledgeable person to transliterate the script into Hebrew letters, because in my opinion, you wouldn't want a Syriac lexicon that couldn't be searched as Hebrew.

[jlm]

Looking around on the Web, it seems that this is the situation: J. Payne Smith, A Compendious Syriac Dictionary, is accessible in the form of indexed page scans at SEDRA and Dukhrana. The former will give you a scan (image) of just the entry, while the latter gives you the whole page. However, it also has other lexica (including Jennings) and a tool for reading the Peshitta NT. No one seems to have an electronic text of this dictionary, so unless a scholar comes forward to prepare one, I doubt we'll ever see it in Accordance. Sokoloff's lexicon, having been published in 2009, presumably exists in electronic form, but I don't know what luck Accordance might have negotiating for the text. If they can't get it, then the remaining hope would be the Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon when it's finished. For now it seems websites are the best option for me.

 

Edit: it occurs to me that it might be possible for Accordance to get a copy of the SEDRA data and make a Payne Smith dictionary where the entries are images rather than electronic text. It would probably be a large resource (50MB at a wild guess), but being able to amplify to it instead of having to go to a website would be a great convenience, and the price would probably be reasonable. I don't know if Accordance would be interested in making such an odd dictionary.

Edited August 9, 2019 by jlm

[TYA]

Dave Bauscher has a very succint Aramaic lexicon (more like a word gloss) fully digitized for e-Sword which contains all 31,000 entries from SEDRA.  Here is a screenshot.  This is available with his Peshitta module package in e-Sword for about $15, last I checked.  Perhaps Accordance could talk to him, as I'm confident he would be open to talk.  I've discussed these things with him before--including making his English translation of the Peshitta Tanakh ("OT") available for Accordance.

 

Again, jlm, Jennings and Payne-Smith use Serta script, which isn't hard to learn, but I doubt Accordance' staff will know it (or be interested in it).  I would love to have these resources in the Accordance software, but I wouldn't want the words to be in Estrangela or Serta.  That is useless to me.  I would want them to be cross-searchable (especially in the Research Tab) in Hebrew letters.  To do that isn't hard in the sense of linguistic knowledge, but it would be extremely time-consuming because there is no way to OCR the text.  All the entries would have to be manually entered electronically.  I guarantee you that.

[jlm]

Dave Bauscher has a very succint Aramaic lexicon (more like a word gloss) fully digitized for e-Sword which contains all 31,000 entries from SEDRA.  Here is a screenshot.  This is available with his Peshitta module package in e-Sword for about $15, last I checked.  Perhaps Accordance could talk to him, as I'm confident he would be open to talk.  I've discussed these things with him before--including making his English translation of the Peshitta Tanakh ("OT") available for Accordance.

 

Again, jlm, Jennings and Payne-Smith use Serta script, which isn't hard to learn, but I doubt Accordance' staff will know it (or be interested in it).  I would love to have these resources in the Accordance software, but I wouldn't want the words to be in Estrangela or Serta.  That is useless to me.  I would want them to be cross-searchable (especially in the Research Tab) in Hebrew letters.  To do that isn't hard in the sense of linguistic knowledge, but it would be extremely time-consuming because there is no way to OCR the text.  All the entries would have to be manually entered electronically.  I guarantee you that.

 

When I wrote that I doubt we'll ever see Payne-Smith in Accordance unless a scholar comes forward to prepare an electronic addition, I was alluding to the fact that OCR would not work. It would have to be entered by hand, as you say, and only someone fluent in Syriac could do it without producing a large number of typos.

 

I think the best option for a lexicon in Accordance would be Sokoloff, because it's the only substantial lexicon that seems to exist in digital form (without OCR). But I don't know if the publisher would be willing to work with Accordance, and it wouldn't be cheap. Given the electronic text, I would think transliteration to Hebrew letters could be done automatically, although a Syriac dictionary printed in Hebrew letters sounds odd. Perhaps a better option would be to do the transliteration in the other direction in the Research tab: you type in Hebrew letters, and the program looks for Syriac letters because the text has no Hebrew fields.

 

Dave Bausches's lexicon looks like a nice value, but I think it would be best to start with the original SEDRA database, which apparently continues to grow. Besides the images from Payne-Smith, it also has images or text from a dozen other sources in various languages (Syriac, English, Latin, German, Arabic, French). Assuming that the data would be available to Accordance, perhaps entries could be formatted thus: Syriac headword and additional forms (e.g., plural of nouns), Hebrew transliteration of the same, English glosses, images and text from other sources. What is in images would obviously not be searchable, but the rest would be.

[Niko]

+1

[Outis]

A related (but not directly related) question:

 

I was going to buy the OT & NT Peshitta bundle. And, in the description it says that it's tagged.  If it's not tied to a lexicon, then what is it tagged to?  Is there some sort of rudimentary lexicon that the Syriac is tied/tagged to?

 

Also, I'd be perfectly ok with a Lexicon in Serto.  But, I imagine Accordance would have to take on the task of adding a whole Serto family to their Syriac font. And if history serves as any pattern, the Accordance folks take their time with unveiling/unleashing their fonts to make sure they are beautiful and stable.  So, I'm not holding my breath on having it any time soon.  but, I would be willing to fork out the money for "A Compendious Syriac Dictionary,"—In either Serto or Estrangelo.

 

And finally, sorry for adding a post that it looks like is a year after the original posting.

[TYA]

I was going to buy the OT & NT Peshitta bundle. And, in the description it says that it's tagged.  If it's not tied to a lexicon, then what is it tagged to?  Is there some sort of rudimentary lexicon that the Syriac is tied/tagged to?

 

They are tagged to a database apparently created by Martin Abegg and Jerome Lund for the Peshitta Tanakh ("OT") and George Kiraz in the Ketuvim Netzarim ("NT").  Here are a couple screenshots.

 

 

 

Also, I'd be perfectly ok with a Lexicon in Serto...In either Serto or Estrangelo.

 

There is already a beautiful Estrangela font for these Syriac texts in Accordance.  I'm not fan of Serto myself.  Sadly, Estrangela cannot be cross-searched with the standard "Ktav Asshuri" Hebrew block script in Accordance.  That's a bummer, since they are the same exact alphabets.  Thus, I prefer to do everything in Hebrew block script, which is what you see in my second screenshot.

[Outis]

Agreed, the Accordance folks did a great job with the Estrangela font.  For my own part, I'd be content to just have that. but if bringing the "Compendious Syriac Dictionary," over to Accordance would need the Serto script, I'd be ok with that.

 

Also, as a sort of "flailing in the darkness" work around, I found that if you amplify to BDB complete, it brings up the Syriac root (and thus, also the definition).  So, at least it's nice to know that "ܪܫܝܬ" is the same as "רֵאשִׁ֖ית".

( https://www.dropbox.com/s/m11k571pmqvxk2u/SYRIAC-BDB.jpg?dl=0 )

 

 

But that, of course, brings up its own question:  How much overlap is there between Hebrew and Syriac in their definitions?

 

Anyway, by this point, this discussion is way off topic. But, at least, this might be a frail work-around for those who are interested.

[TYA]

but if bringing the "Compendious Syriac Dictionary," over to Accordance would need the Serto script, I'd be ok with that.

 

The only way I would know to do that is by existing PDF's, since I've never seen this work (or others like it) fully digitized.  If that is indeed the case, then the Serta could be transcribed in any script (Hebrew block, Estrangela, Serta), as once the consonants are typed, a simple "find and replace" could easily substitute them out to change the script.  I've done this before.  Personally, Serta is my least favorite, so I'd opt for Hebrew block, as again, it would be searchable in Accordance's current way of handling things.  At least Estrangela is pretty.  Serta is nothing more than a pain in the butt.

 

 

But that, of course, brings up its own question:  How much overlap is there between Hebrew and Syriac in their definitions?

 

Very roughly, 1/3 of the words are exactly the same (although maybe with the Hebrew letter sin substituted with samekh in Aramaic, another 1/3 of the words bear at least some resemblance, and another 1/3 are completely different.

 

Incidentally, the Peshitta bundle in Accordance, which I definitely recommend, comes with both Estrangela and Hebrew block modules for "NT", though only the former for "OT."  However, if you know how to import texts, you can have "OT" that looks like *both* of these.

[Nick Acker]

Vote for

 

Michael Sokoloff and Carl Brockelmann, A Syriac Lexicon: A Translation From the Latin: Correction, Expansion, and Update of C. Brockelmann’s Lexicon Syriacum (Winona Lake, Ind. Piscataway, N.J.: Eisenbrauns Gorgias Press, 2009).

 

 

[bjnoonan]

+1

[Fabian]

+1

[Andrew Patterson]

+1 This would be incredibly useful for Semitic word studies.

[Eric J. Tully]

+1

[Fabian]

http://bethmardutho.org 

 

The Thesaurus seems to be grown. https://simtho.bethmardutho.org/crystal/#open and actual as they working on it. 

 

 

[Mark Allison]

On 8/9/2019 at 7:11 PM, TYA said:

Dave Bauscher has a very succint Aramaic lexicon (more like a word gloss) fully digitized for e-Sword which contains all 31,000 entries from SEDRA.  Here is a screenshot.  This is available with his Peshitta module package in e-Sword for about $15, last I checked.  Perhaps Accordance could talk to him, as I'm confident he would be open to talk.  I've discussed these things with him before--including making his English translation of the Peshitta Tanakh ("OT") available for Accordance.

 

Again, jlm, Jennings and Payne-Smith use Serta script, which isn't hard to learn, but I doubt Accordance' staff will know it (or be interested in it).  I would love to have these resources in the Accordance software, but I wouldn't want the words to be in Estrangela or Serta.  That is useless to me.  I would want them to be cross-searchable (especially in the Research Tab) in Hebrew letters.  To do that isn't hard in the sense of linguistic knowledge, but it would be extremely time-consuming because there is no way to OCR the text.  All the entries would have to be manually entered electronically.  I guarantee you that.

 

Can you send me Dave Bauscher's contact information? I'd love to talk to him about this.

[Fabian]

I tried recently to contact him, but the e-mail was not working.

 

BTW the Bible he produced is a pain. Verse mapping is incorrect, verse mapping is a mixture of the PESHOT-T and the KJV (as theWord Bible software only can KJV). Some verse of the PESHOT-T is missing. Some are added. This said, before Accordance think of releasing the Bible he should first fix the errors. Some verses are divided in two, or an another place than the PESHOT-T. A lot of verses has no punctuation at the end.

This said, before Accordance think of releasing the Bible he should first fix the errors. On Lulu you can see a lot of parts of the Bible to sell. For me he was more interested in making money than to produce a fine Bible. And the ePub is a pain in itself.

[TYA]

Quote

Michael Sokoloff and Carl Brockelmann, A Syriac Lexicon: A Translation From the Latin: Correction, Expansion, and Update of C. Brockelmann’s Lexicon Syriacum (Winona Lake, Ind. Piscataway, N.J.: Eisenbrauns Gorgias Press, 2009).

 +1