Searching for names with a ג but transliterated without a γ

[miketisdell]

I am trying to search for names that contain a ג but do not contain a γ in the LXX transliteration. The problem I am having is in trying to exclude options that contain a γ. Accordance doesn't allow "<NOT> *γ*" and "* <NOT> *γ*" doesn't exclude words with a γ.

 

 

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Hi Mike,

 

I think you want @- in the Greek field rather than the <NOT> but I am not able to test this right now.

 

thx

D

[miketisdell]

Hi Mike,

 

I think you want @- in the Greek field rather than the <NOT> but I am not able to test this right now.

 

thx

D

 

 

I have tried the following options:*γ*

 

*γ*@-

 

@-*γ*

 

*-γ*

 

But so far I haven't found anything that works (I have found some that take a very long time to search).

 

However, I did discover a very serious bug in 12.3.5 when I tried to view help!

[miketisdell]

NOTE: I have been able to get results close to what I want by moving the *γ* into the tagged Greek text. Negation appears to be broken in the MT-LXX searches.

[Joel Brown]

Are these results not what you are looking for?

 

 

I find it cleaner (and faster!) to specify all the hebrew restrictions in my source hebrew tab, rather than making even more fields in the MT-LXX tab.  And, you'll note that I have the 'NOT' logic specified rather than a - in my Greek field on the MTLXX.

[miketisdell]

Are these results not what you are looking for?

 

Screen Shot 2019-07-31 at 4.05.08 PM.png

 

I find it cleaner (and faster!) to specify all the hebrew restrictions in my source hebrew tab, rather than making even more fields in the MT-LXX tab.  And, you'll note that I have the 'NOT' logic specified rather than a - in my Greek field on the MTLXX.

 

This is very close to what I did. I ended up specifying all restrictions in both the Hebrew and Greek source tabs. However, the results you provided are opposite of what I wanted i.e. I actually wanted proper names that were where ג was not transliterated as γ

 

For example: 

 

Gen. 10:25

פלג‎ φαλεκ

 

Gen. 11:16

‏ פלג φαλεκ

 

Gen. 11:17

 פלג‎  φαλεκ

 

Gen. 11:22

שׂרוג σερουχ

 

Gen. 11:23

שׂרוג σερουχ

 

 

That being said, negation in the MT-LXX module seems to be badly broken. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by miketisdell

[Joel Brown]

Sorry, the search didn't update in the screenshot.  If you create what I posted, you should get good results, and nothing is "badly broken".  See this screenshot:

 

[miketisdell]

Sorry, the search didn't update in the screenshot.  If you create what I posted, you should get good results, and nothing is "badly broken".  See this screenshot:

 

Screen Shot 2019-07-31 at 9.33.16 PM.png

 

Yes, that is the results I am looking for, but I would ask you to test entering the negative criteria in the MT-LXX module before stating that it is not broken. When I put the negative criteria in that window it simply does not work no matter how I have it formatted. but if I take the same search criteria and put in in the source window it works. 

 

Positive search criteria also works in the MT-LXX correctly but negative criteria does not. 

 

Try it.

[Helen Brown]

In general, search criteria are much more developed and specific in texts that in tools. MT-LXX Parallel is a tool so searching will not be the same as in a text, but you do have the option of searching multiple fields with different criteria and an AND or OR relationship.

 

I haven't followed all this discussion, am just stating general principles.

[miketisdell]

In general, search criteria are much more developed and specific in texts that in tools. MT-LXX Parallel is a tool so searching will not be the same as in a text, but you do have the option of searching multiple fields with different criteria and an AND or OR relationship.

 

I haven't followed all this discussion, am just stating general principles.

 

 

I typically use search criteria in both the source tabs (which is typically set to "words" and allows me to use tagging, and in the MT-LXX which functions much more like a "letters" search. Normally this works well, but when I needed to do a negative search i.e. exclude items that matched a pattern rather than include them, I found that this was broken in the MT-LXX module. While I was able to provide search criteria with negation that was excepted as valid syntax, I was unable to get any search to correctly do negation in the MT-LXX module.

[miketisdell]

I typically use search criteria in both the source tabs (which is typically set to "words" and allows me to use tagging, and in the MT-LXX which functions much more like a "letters" search. Normally this works well, but when I needed to do a negative search i.e. exclude items that matched a pattern rather than include them, I found that this was broken in the MT-LXX module. While I was able to provide search criteria with negation that was excepted as valid syntax, I was unable to get any search to correctly do negation in the MT-LXX module.

 

Here is an example:

 

[Helen Brown]

Your use of is incorrect. It means that the second item should not be found anywhere in the scope (paragraph or article in a tool, verse, sentence chapel etc. in a text). You have to use @ to specify that the conditions attach to the same word.

 

The search *@-*γ* works perfectly in a text, but it is not working in a tool. The @ symbol is not dimmed so in theory it should work, but as its use is to join a tag to a word, perhaps it should not work in a tool at all.

 

I believe this is the search you want, but it does give extra positives in the case of Ramot Gilead.

 

[miketisdell]

Your use of <NOT> is incorrect. It means that the second item should not be found anywhere in the scope (paragraph or article in a tool, verse, sentence chapel etc. in a text). You have to use @ to specify that the conditions attach to the same word.

 

The search *@-*γ* works perfectly in a text, but it is not working in a tool. The @ symbol is not dimmed so in theory it should work, but as its use is to join a tag to a word, perhaps it should not work in a tool at all.

 

I believe this is the search you want, but it does give extra positives in the case of Ramot Gilead.

 

MERGE.png

 

Yes, I actually got a search that is working a little better when I specify the search criteria in the source tab (as you have done). It would be nice to see negation working in the MT-LXX tab.