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Wrong counts returned form some LXX-MT searches


miketisdell
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When searching for kurios in the LXX and YHWH in the MT, the results are double of what they should be. In the attached photo you can see that when kuri* is searched alone, there are 13 hits found in Habakkuk. These hits can be confirmed on the list on the left side. However, when kurios and YHWH are searched, the count for Habakkuk increases to 24 but the list on the left confirms that only 12 hits actually matched. Similar results are seen in every book.

 

 

post-35053-0-19845300-1558157978_thumb.jpg

 

Additional information can be found here: https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/26181-allow-lxx-mt-module-to-search-for-hebrew-word-greek-word/?p=129071

 

 

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Here's a cool little trick that will yield more accurate results. You can't search for all inflected forms directly in the MT-LXX module, but you can use the "Merge" command to link the HMT and LXX Texts to the MT-LXX.

 

Select "Show Text As" Paragraphs and add Titles to display only the lines in the MT-LXX that contain the hits you're looking for. Also, set the Search Scope to "Paragraph".

 

Screen%20Shot%202019-05-18%20at%207.13.2

Edited by Mark Allison
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Here's a cool little trick that will yield more accurate results. You can't search for all inflected forms directly in the MT-LXX module, but you can use the "Merge" command to link the HMT and LXX Texts to the MT-LXX.

 

Select "Show Text As" Paragraphs and add Titles to display only the lines in the MT-LXX that contain the hits you're looking for. Also, set the Search Scope to "Paragraph".

 

Screen%20Shot%202019-05-18%20at%207.13.2

 

That is one thing I knew and use pretty regularly. And as I can see from your count, this method still produces the wrong statistical information. Take a look at a small book, like Habakkak, and I expect that you will find a much higher count than you do find in the actual results. Note: searching for either kurios or YHWH alone produces the correct statistics, but together the count is far too high. When combining together with an <AND> the numbers should go down and not up.

 

 

What I didn't know until yesterday is that I can limit the search to "paragraph" with the "search scope" button and only search for matches in the translated words. I also had not realized that I could add a second search line to the same LXX-MT tab to search both Hebrew and Greek in the same tab.

Edited by miketisdell
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I thought you might already know this info, but figured I'd add an explanation for the benefit of those who don't use this tool regularly. I'm also updating the help documentation with this example. It's a tricky procedure if you haven't done it in a while.

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If I'm understanding your original question correctly, you're getting 24 hits in Habakkuk with your search for both kurios and YHWH, which is an accurate count since you're searching for two words. When you're searching for kurios alone, you get 13 hits in Habakkuk since you're only looking for one word. The reason for the extra hit when searching for kurios alone is that in Habakkuk 3:9, while kurios is present in the LXX, YHWH is not found in the MT.

Edited by Mark Allison
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Here are another couple of examples of wrong counts.

 

I also notices that when I have the wrong results and use the arrows buttons for "art" at the bottom left corner, the  article number increments by 2's or 3's with each click.

 

post-35053-0-05037300-1558187578_thumb.jpg

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Is not every word in „red“ a hit? So if a verse is found with a Hebrew and a Greek word you have 2 hits for one match.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian

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Is not every word in „red“ a hit? So if a verse is found with a Hebrew and a Greek word you have 2 hits for one match.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian

 

If true it would make this search very different from other searches in Accordance i.e. if I search for "=יהוה <AND> אלהים" in Accordance in a Hebrew Bible Tagged, I get one hit for each occurrence that matches the designated search i.e. includes both terms. However, that being said, it does likely account for the differences.

 

Doing some further testing, the conclusion appears to be almost correct; however the odd number result of 497 is still wrong. I count 248 results so it seems like the count is doubled + 1

 

post-35053-0-39010200-1558201445_thumb.jpg

Edited by miketisdell
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No, this is the normal count in Accordance. 

 

See for example in BDAG

 

Word and the scripture reference = 2 hits. 2 "things" in "red".

 

post-32723-0-14312200-1558202681_thumb.png

 

Also if you narrow your search to only one verse. You have two word in red = 2 hits.

 

post-32723-0-93837800-1558203849_thumb.png

 

Back to your search. I guess there is a word in brackets, an alternate reading, which founds one hit more post-32723-0-82470600-1558203300_thumb.png or you have not for every Hebrew word a Greek or otherwise for your +1.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian

Edited by Fabian
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Doing some further testing, the conclusion appears to be almost correct; however the odd number result of 497 is still wrong. I count 248 results so it seems like the count is doubled + 1

 

attachicon.gifstatistics bug3.jpg

 

I mentioned this yesterday in the other thread.

As to why odd, check Prov 1:7 - there are two occurrences of θεο*.

 

Thx

D

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I mentioned this yesterday in the other thread.

As to why odd, check Prov 1:7 - there are two occurrences of θεο*.

 

Thx

D

 

I looked for a double occurrence but missed this one. Note: you cannot search for a double occurrence in the module i.e. listing two instances doesn't change the count. 

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If I'm understanding your original question correctly, you're getting 24 hits in Habakkuk with your search for both kurios and YHWH, which is an accurate count since you're searching for two words. When you're searching for kurios alone, you get 13 hits in Habakkuk since you're only looking for one word. The reason for the extra hit when searching for kurios alone is that in Habakkuk 3:9, while kurios is present in the LXX, YHWH is not found in the MT.

 

 

I would expect an <And> search to include only one hit when both occurrences in the <AND> are found i.e. the way that other searches in Accordance work.

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I would expect an <And> search to include only one hit when both occurrences in the <AND> are found i.e. the way that other searches in Accordance work.

I Agree with you. I expected this too as I came to Accordance.

 

Maybe a third result is needed after, in how many verses, how many hits and how many times the combination is found.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian

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I looked for a double occurrence but missed this one. Note: you cannot search for a double occurrence in the module i.e. listing two instances doesn't change the count. 

 

Curiously FOLLOWED BY works:

 

post-32023-0-27810200-1558209090_thumb.jpg

 

Thx

D

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