Bielikov Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 It turns out that the Qamets in שָׁרְצ֨וּ is a Quamets Katan rather than a Qamets Gadol. How could I have know that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Holmstedt Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 In principle it relates to word stress and syllable structure. But in some forms, it also requires a bit of knowledge about the underlying form or historical development of the form/word. Thus, for the 3cp perfect, the use of the qamets gadol in the first syllable (which is unstressed and *looks* closed) requires that we recognize (or better, posit) that that first syllable *used to be* open and the shewa represents a reduced vowel that at one time was also the stressed syllable: /qata'lu:/. The short /a/ quality vowel of the qatal perfect verb then lengthened in the prestress syllable (like the pattern of nouns/adjectives, to which the perfect verb once related). The originally stress of the form later shifted to the final syllable and the /a/ of the original middle syllable reduced in prestress syllables, according to the pattern of verbs (e.g., /yiqtol/ > /yiqtlu/), to which the perfect verb later related. This is essentially the story for the 3fs perfect, /qatla:/ as well. Now, to this specific form: the qamets is a qamets gadol, not a qamets qatan. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TYA Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 (edited) In principle it relates to word stress and syllable structure. But in some forms, it also requires a bit of knowledge about the underlying form or historical development of the form/word. Just curious: with all this being said, would you (Hebrew teachers) call it "incorrect" or a "mistake" to pronounce this word with the "o" sound instead of "a"? I ask your opinion because I've heard people reading Bible in Israel (native Israeli's) vary their pronunciation--some making "o" and some "a" with regards to qatan and chataf. (Note: not with specific regards to this word in question; but just in general). Edited April 28, 2019 by TYA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Holmstedt Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 That is actually a much more complicated question. It is fairly easy for us to determine which historical vowel (i.e., a short /a/ or a short /u/) underlies a given qamets based on the word pattern, syllable structure, and comparative Semitics. But the pronunciation traditions vary. Those of who use a reconstructed vocalization (that essentially matches Modern Hebrew) would say that the qamets qadol should be pronounced as a an "ah" sound, whereas the qamets qatan should be pronounced as "oh"). However, those who teach the actual Tiberian system (which is reflected to various degrees in a number of traditional Jewish pronunciations) would pronounce every qamets as a rounded /a/, halfway between "ah" and "oh" (a bit like "oy" without much of the y sound). And yet, I learned recently that there is a tradition of this in which, say, the first qamets in the 3fs perfect כתבה "she wrote" would be the rounded /a/, but the qamets-heh at the end would be "ah". So, the answer is really that you need to pick your tradition and learn to apply it consistently. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markusvonkaenel Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Just curious: with all this being said, would you (Hebrew teachers) call it "incorrect" or a "mistake" to pronounce this word with the "o" sound instead of "a"? I ask your opinion because I've heard people reading Bible in Israel (native Israeli's) vary their pronunciation--some making "o" and some "a" with regards to qatan and chataf. (Note: not with specific regards to this word in question; but just in general). just an idea: visit us in Israel and hear it yourself in our Hebrew speaking kehlia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bielikov Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 Hello Robert, I was not able to answer sooner, because I was traveling. I have found two authorities that consider שרצו to have a Qamets Qatan and one a Qamets Gadol. I think this proves my point that this is not so simple. I would love to be corrected if I am wrong. The authorities are one from Logos, one from Accordance and one from an Israeli reading the Torah, respectively. Very best wishes from Chile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Holmstedt Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 It is simply as I said. Always consult established reference grammars, in print. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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