Hebrew text problems with cut/paste

[JackiPowell]

One of the main reasons that I use Accordance is for Hebrew studies.  When I write my articles, I want to be able to copy a Hebrew word/phrase or verse into the article.  If I copy the verse in English, and then paste into the article, it works ok.  If I copy the verse in Hebrew, it is not working.  I highlight the Hebrew words I want to copy, press Command+C, go to my article in Word and press Command+V.  The clipboard only has the contents from the last time I copied from somewhere else (other than Accordance).  This used to work fine, but now it does not.  If anyone can help, I would appreciate it.

 

I use a MacBook Pro with Sierra, 10.12.2;   My Accordance is 11.2.4

[Solly]

What happens if you use copy as options? Also, what happens if you try pasting into something other than Word? I just tried some Hebrew text with pasting into Pages, and I did observe some interesting behaviors among the options with RTL vs LTR, alignment, etc.. In all cases I could get Hebrew text to paste, but I found that the Copy As function gave better results. I am using Accordance 12.0.2 on a MacBook Pro with Sierra 10.12.1 (will try again after I apply the update). I don't have a copy of Word to try.

 

Shalom,

Joseph

[Fabian]

Hello Jacki 

 

There is an update to 11.2.5 maybe this solve your problem. Go to Menu Accordance, App update.

 

Do you have installed the Hebrew Keyboard layout? Then you can choose in Word 16  from LTR to RTL. 

[Michel Gilbert]

Hi Jacki,

I have Sierra 10.12.2, Acc 11.2.5, and MS Word for Mac 2016 version 15.29.1.
My Export Preferences are set to Export all characters with Unicode format.
If I Paste Special > Formatted Text (RTF) it works.

Regards,

Michel

[Michel Gilbert]

Hi again,

There is an update to Word version 15.3.0 today. Paste Special > . . . RTF also works in it.

Regards,

Michel

[Solly]

After I updated Sierra to ver 10.12.2, I did note that the command-C type of copy and Copy as (No Superscript) now give the same result with Hebrew text (same font and same LTR behavior). Other little tests remained the same between the 10.12.1 and 10.12.2 systems, so this Sierra update did change something for the better in my case.

 

Fabian and Michel, I think, are pretty 'on top of things' for the issue you encountered Jackie.

 

Shalom,

Joseph

[R. Mansfield]

Just to clarify, the bug is in the Mac version of MS Word and not Accordance. The bug was introduced in an update to Word released late last year. It has caused problems for us and other programs as well. For instance, the Add-Ins menu for Bookends is not working correctly right now. I'm running v. 15.30 released in the last few days, and it does not fix the problem. I was in contact recently with someone running the beta of Word 15.31, and he said it was fixed there. I hope that's true!

[Michel Gilbert]

Hi Rick,

Your clarification has confused me. What exactly is the bug?

 

A simple copy and paste from Acc to Word pastes over many pages, as described at
https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/20202-pasting-problems-in-word/?do=findComment&comment=98132.

The Paste . . . as RTF has worked since then, whichever method you use to copy and paste - rt click, Cmd-, or Toolbar.

Are you saying that a simple copy and paste doesn't work, and it will be fixed?

 

Regards,

Michel

[Michel Gilbert]

And why does the formatting (of Returns) keep changing after I press "Post"?

[Fabian]

Hi Rick,

Your clarification has confused me. What exactly is the bug?

 

A simple copy and paste from Acc to Word pastes over many pages, as described at

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/20202-pasting-problems-in-word/?do=findComment&comment=98132.

The Paste . . . as RTF has worked since then, whichever method you use to copy and paste - rt click, Cmd-, or Toolbar.

Are you saying that a simple copy and paste doesn't work, and it will be fixed?

 

Regards,

Michel

 

By me this bug is still alive. Word 15.31 (170110) latest Office insider fast update.

[R. Mansfield]

Your clarification has confused me. What exactly is the bug?

 

 

My apologies. I probably won't have the proper terminology to describe it, but I'll do the best I can. What it comes down to is this: a recent (late 2016) version of MS Word/Mac introduced a bug that changed the results of simple cmd-v pasting into a Word document. However, pasting special as RTF from the edit menu usually delivers the correct results. 

 

For example, in addition to the issues described in this thread, if you were to copy as citation text from any Accordance tool (non-biblical texts), you would expect the content you copied to be reproduced in Word with an accompanying footnote. But the footnote will not appear unless you paste special as RTF. 

 

Earlier I had read a response from a Microsoft employee on a Microsoft forum acknowledging the issue, but I cannot currently find it. However, here is a similar problem expressed by a person trying to paste from Excel to Word and another in the Bookends forum. 

[R. Mansfield]

 

Are you saying that a simple copy and paste doesn't work, and it will be fixed?

 

Yes, but the fix will need to come from Microsoft. 

[Michel Gilbert]

I wonder if it is just a Word issue. Cmd-v or simply Paste works for all the programs/apps I use, except for Acc. See screenshot.

 

 

Regards

[Michel Gilbert]

Here are more examples of Cmv-v in Word:

 

All I’m saying is that it might be worth looking into as a bug.

I can’t find a program that Pastes or Cmv-v pastes in Word the way Acc (Hebrew) does.

 

Regards,

 

Michel

[R. Mansfield]

All I’m saying is that it might be worth looking into as a bug.

 

 

Well, sure, there could be a bug in Accordance, too. But there's definitely a bug in the most recent version of Word on the Mac that is affecting copy and paste. 

[Michel Gilbert]

But it's not affecting any program I have. Can you post a screenshot of any program you have that it is affecting?

[R. Mansfield]

But it's not affecting any program I have. Can you post a screenshot of any program you have that it is affecting?

 

Well, the links concerning Excel to Word and Bookends to Word that I offered above are good examples. The Bookends issue is a really good example that affects me because Bookends scans a Word document for reference tags, supplies citations in place of those tags, and pastes in the new content--all of this is an automated process. But this process quit working as normal in the update to Word late last year. The workaround has been the same as what we're having to do with content copied from Accordance--paste special as RTF. 

 

I also mentioned copying as citation from something like a commentary or other reference work in Accordance. As of the update to Word, I don't get the footnote unless I past special as RTF. I have another Bible software platform on my computer and the same thing happens when I paste from it to Word. But if I paste special as RTF, the footnote correctly shows up at the bottom of the page. 

[Michel Gilbert]

Rick,

 

The Excel example is dated Dec 18, 2015. Yet even conceding your examples, if these are the only ones out of our 50+ (or 100+?) programs between us, it would seem the problem could be with a few specific programs, and not with Word, or a compatibility issue between a few programs.

 

It just seems like issues with Hebrew get pushed to the back of the queue. Don Hunter said in the above-mentioned post, "Would love an update with a fix also. Haven't experienced this issue pasting from any other programs into Word - only Accordance 12." Waiting to see if Word fixes the issue is in effect pushing it to the back.

 

Anyways, I'm just advocating for a fix for Jacki's issue. And I think there is enough data to suggest Acc should look into things at their end.

 

Regards,

 

Michel

[R. Mansfield]

You're right about the Excel example. I was trying to find some other examples and didn't pay attention to the year on the date of the post. I looked into all this a couple of weeks ago when I was running into some of the issues with citations and Bookends, but I didn't bookmark any of those links unfortunately. 

 

I assure you, though, issues with Hebrew don't "get pushed to the back of the queue." I'm not a developer, so I can't speak to specifics (I was just trying to shed some light on the issue and maybe I should have stayed out of it). However, I am certain that if there's a bug with Hebrew in Accordance that it will be addressed as quickly as possible. 

[JackiPowell]

Thank you for the feedback, but the problem is NOT with Microsoft Word at all.  The problem is with the copy from Accordance. It is not working because the Hebrew word/phrase I am trying to copy is not being put into the clipboard.  Thus when I do the paste into my Word document, the contents being pasted is from a previous copy (whatever I previously copied - NOT a copy from Accordance).  This happens over and over. It is not a one time thing.  I did update my Accordance to 11.2.5 and it is still happening.  This always used to work just fine.

[Fabian]

Thank you for the feedback, but the problem is NOT with Microsoft Word at all.  The problem is with the copy from Accordance. It is not working because the Hebrew word/phrase I am trying to copy is not being put into the clipboard.  Thus when I do the paste into my Word document, the contents being pasted is from a previous copy (whatever I previously copied - NOT a copy from Accordance).  This happens over and over. It is not a one time thing.  I did update my Accordance to 11.2.5 and it is still happening.  This always used to work just fine.

Yes I had also a lot of hassles to select the Hebrew, but it was in the clipboard. 

 

I wasn't able to paste it in Word except the verse numbering which worked fine, but paste to Apple Notes works fine for Hebrew and the verse numbering.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Fabian

[Helen Brown]

Jacki:

 

We definitely do not push Hebrew issues to the back. The problem here is that there are so many variables, and we have not so far reproduced your problem. For example, I copied English and then Hebrew to Word witth command-C and -V and both pasted perfectly. However, this is what I have on my Mac:

 

Accordance 11.2.5 and 12.0.2

Export set to Unicode and Accordance font

OS 10.9.5, Mavericks (not your Sierra)

Word 2011

 

I suggest you try pasting into other Mac programs after copying. If the Hebrew pastes into Mail, TextEdit, Pages, then at least we know that it is in the clipboard. It could still be an Accordance problem affecting how it is saved in the clipboard, but it does seem likely to be Word's problem. You can also try paste into TextEdit and then recopy from there and paste into Word. I had one user who always did that.

 

I also suggest upgrading to Accordance 12, as ongoing bug fixes will mostly be found there, and not back-ported to version 11 unless critical.

[JackiPowell]

Shalom Ms. Helen,

Thank you for your reply.  First, just to clarify, I did not think that Accordance was ignoring Hebrew fixes. I think someone else on this thread said that, but I did not.  I simply wanted to know how to cut Hebrew text from Accordance and paste into my Word document.  I love Accordance and recommend it to people all the time!  Several of my students have purchased it upon my recommendation.

 

As per your suggestions:

- I did buy the upgrade to Accordance 12 as you suggested above, early this AM.  My purchase went to manual processing so it will be tomorrow I suppose before the upgrade comes in and I can try this with Accordance 12.  For now, I am using the latest version of 11.

- I am using Word for the Mac 2011 - I have used it for 6 years and it has always worked fine.

- I did try doing a copy from Accordance and paste into Apple mail and it DOES NOT paste in the Hebrew text that I highlighted and copied with the Cmd+C.  It pastes in the last thing that was in the clipboard from a previous copy (not from Accordance).  

- I do not use other Word processing software, only Word.  I have to get this to work with Word because that is what we use to write our magazine and my articles must be in Word. 

 

I don't think this is a bug in my copy of Word since I am using the 2011 version that I have used for 6 years.  And since it works for you, then obviously I am either doing something wrong, or maybe there is a special setting in Accordance that I need to have set up?  In the past, I never changed any settings to get this to work. I have used Accordance for about 6 years to write my articles and have copied Hebrew text this way. But maybe there are new settings that I am not aware of.  

 

Thank you for any help/insights.

God Bless,

Jacki Powell

[Helen Brown]

Please go to the Preferences and make sure your export is set to Unicode. If you want to screenshare to show me the issue, send me a PM with your Skype name.

[Michel Gilbert]

Hi,

I love Acc too, or else I wouldn't take the pains I do to post on these Forums.

Now regarding my comment, “It just seems like issues with Hebrew get pushed to the back of the queue,” and Rick's and Helen's comments, “We definitely do not push Hebrew issues to the back.”

First, both could be true from our different perspectives. I said,”seems.”

Second, my comment was specifically addressed to Rick's regarding the post I mentioned regarding Acc Hebrew pasting over several pages in Word, e.g., over approx 10 pages for 5 verses, most of the pages being blank, which Acc did not respond to, and to which Rick implied Acc wouldn't respond to, because it is is probably a Word issue, and the fix would have to come from MS.

Third, there are now two, possibly three problems with Hebrew copy and paste - the pasting over several pages, Jacki's problem, and possibly Fabians verse numbers only problem he mentioned. These could all be related, and could possibly be something in Acc.

Fourth, since they may be related concerns, I did what I have often done, piggybacked a Hebrew concern that wasn't acknowledged by Acc onto another possibly related concern.

Now in fairness, Acc doesn't have to fix every problem for every user. But, Word is the world standard word processor, and the scholarly standard. So, one would expect that export preferences would work with it.

Why is it important to me, that a simple copy and paste in Heb works in word, compared to the extra steps required for Paste Special? Because I am working on the equivalent of Zerwick/Grosvenor's Analysis. Having prepared my own Unicode BHS, I know there are about 35,000 page and line breaks. If I ever complete this in my lifetime, I envision over 100,000 copies and pastes into it. So the less steps the better. As it is, I've switched to Mellel for now.

Besides, I advocate for others who have simpler needs, but whose work could likewise be simplified. There really is something to the argument of jumping to fix basic work flow issues, i.e., putting them to the front of the queue, so that we can spend more time in Acc studying instead of formatting.

Regards,

Michel