EricC Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) Is there an Accordance module for the Greek NT that is precisely the same as the Scrivener's edition published by Trinitarian Bible Society? After watching Dr. J's helpful podcast #117 about Display > List Text Differences (http://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/15320-117-list-all-and-report-a-correction/), I thought I'd try it with Scrivener's and other GNTs. It seems to me, though, that the GNT-TRS (Greek New Testament - Textus Receptus with Strong's) and the GNT-TR (same w/o Strong's numbers) are really the 1550 Stephanus text. The information box for them (see attached screenshot) at first confused me since it says that the text is Stephanus', but that the diacritical marks were added to conform to the TBS' "The Greek New Testament: The Greek Text Underlying the English Authorised Version of 1611". The text, based on my checks, really is Stephanus', not Scrivener's, and it appears that only the diacritical marks and punctuation conform to the TBS version. So assuming there is no other module for Accordance (and that no one has a user module they could share), maybe I could request Scrivener's as published by TBS here? Edited February 7, 2015 by EricC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Mansfield Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Eric, your assessment is correct. Although not the same as what you're looking for, you may also be interested in Robinson's Byzantine Greek New Testament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricC Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 Thank you, Rick, for the clarification. Any chance of the Scrivener's in Accordance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Mansfield Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Eric, I know of no projects in the works. Such things are usually an issue of demand, and I'll shoot straight with you to say that there's simply not a lot of demand at the moment. There may be enough interest for users to put together a User Bible around the Scrivener text, but I don't know. Just playing with that idea, and following the instructions in Accordance Help, I created a "test" version of the Scrivener NT with Just Matt 1-2 in it. Now, I "borrowed" text from a competing software to create the Accordance version, but keep in mind that these are public domain texts. I'm pretty sure that's well within legal use of the text, but I'm not a lawyer, so I can't say for certain. The results came out pretty good though! I had to remind myself of the differences between Stephanus' text and that of Scrivener by reading this article from the Theopedia (which I recommend to others as a good summary as well as Wikipedia's profile of Scrivener). I also discovered that I have a print edition of Scrivener from the Trinity Bible Society that I had forgotten about. Interesting stuff! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricC Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 Thanks, Rick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan C. Borland Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) Hello Accordancers! I just checked all the places in Matthew where Scrivener's 1894 printed text underlying the KJV differs from Stephanus' 1550, and in only one place does the Accordance module GNT-TRS side with Stephanus 1550 against Scrivener 1894 (that place is Matt 9:33; see below). Stephanus 1550 Matt 2:11 εὗρον (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: εἶδον) Matt 2:23 Ναζαρέτ (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: Ναζαρέθ) Matt 4:13 Ναζαρέτ (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: Ναζαρέθ) Matt 9:18 OM. εἷς (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: ἄρχων εἷς) Matt 9:33 Stephanus 1550 WITH Accordance GNT-TRS: λέγοντες ὅτι (but Scrivener's TR: OM. ὅτι) Matt 10:10 ῥαβδόν (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: ῥάβδους) Matt 10:25 Βεελζεβούλ (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: Βεελζεβούβ) Matt 11:21 Βηθσαϊδάν (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: Βηθσαϊδά) Matt 13:24 σπείροντι (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: σπείραντι) Matt 18:30 ἀλλά (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: ἀλλ᾽) Matt 20:22 ὁ δέ (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: δὲ ὁ) Matt 21:7 ἐπεκάθισεν (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: ἐπεκάθισαν) Matt 21:11 Ναζαρέτ (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: Ναζαρέθ) Matt 21:13 οὐαὶ δὲ ... κρίμα (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: οὐαὶ δὲ ὑμῖν ... εἰσελθεῖν) Matt 21:14 οὐαὶ ὑμῖν ... εἰσελθεῖν (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: οὐαὶ ὑμῖν ... κρίμα) Matt 24:15 ἑστός (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: ἑστώς) So at least in Matthew it appears that the accordance GNT-TRS is in fact much closer to Scrivener's 1894 TR than Stephanus' 1550 edition. Sincerely, Jonathan C. Borland Edited February 28, 2015 by Jonathan C. Borland 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricC Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share Posted February 28, 2015 Thank you, Jonathan! That is helpful to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricC Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) To revive this request for a totally Scrivener's text in Accordance. Please see Albert Hembt's comments here in regard to BW2Acc crossover packages and Scrivener's text: https://www.accordancebible.com/BibleWorks-Crossover-Packages#comment-3936905534. He said this: 3) BibleWorks worked with George Anderson of the Trinitarian Bible Society to get a corrected edition of the Scrivener 1894 text of the Greek Textus Receptus - the edition as compiled, basically, by the King James Translators from Beza 1598, and from the marginal notes of the Stephanus 1550. Is there a chance you could get BibleWorks to give you that text - perhaps in cooperation with the Trinitarian Bible Society - so as then to provide that as a module for purchase? Accordance Bible Software's blog moderator said this: Yes, we would love to license […] other unique BibleWorks materials, and we hope they will be open to our doing so. I still would like to see Scrivener's TR in Accordance. Edited June 21, 2018 by EricC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Mansfield Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 I know George Anderson. I will contact him to see if we can get a text from him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 I know George Anderson. I will contact him to see if we can get a text from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Falling Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) Hey – Isn't this what we already have in Accordance? It's called the GNT-TR (no "S"). Here's what you get if you click on the "I" in the Library window. It says the text produced by Dr. Robinson was adjusted by Dr. Koivisto against the TBS text. Right? If I've got it wrong, I'd appreciate the correction. EDIT: Doesn't this mean that the Stephanus 1550 was adjusted to agree with the TR produced by the Trinitarian Bible society? EDIT: There are couple of places to check a GNT to find out which text it really represents. In 1598, Beza added a "conjectural emendation" to Rev 16:5, substituting ὁ ἐσόμενος for the well-supported ὁ ὅσιος (holy). This is variant that never appears in any Greek manuscript. The GNT-Byz is exactly like the NA28th in this verse. You won't see the substitution in the in the Oxford 1873 TR, either (see CNTTS-R). However, the GNT-TRS combines the two readings and gives us καὶ ὁ ὅσιος ἐσόμενος. The GNT-TR we have in Accordance takes into account Beza's ill-judged emendation. Its Greek text must, therefore, include editorial decisions made in & after 1598 and, at least here, supports the English of the KJV. See The King James Only Controversy, JR White, pgs 105-106, 237-241. Also, check out Comfort's Commentary. Another interesting variant is seen @ Acts 3:20. The NA28th and GNT-Byz have προκεχειρισμένον; the GNT-TR & GNT-TRS have προκεκηρυγμένον. I emailed Dr. Warren several years ago concerning this variant that has only the TR listed for support in the CNTTS. He said, "On the TR reading in Acts 3:20, that comes from the influence of the Latin Vulgate which has praedicatus." Dr. Warren is Director of the Center for New Testament Textual Studies at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary. Edited June 21, 2018 by Julia Falling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) Did I just read you correctly, in that the KJV translator compiled their own Greek NT? I've never heard of such a thing before. I've always understood that there is no published Greek NT that exactly supports the English AV/KJV of 1611—or at least, there wasn't one before the KJV, but that one was compiled subsequently (in retrospect, to "prove" the KJV translation.) BibleWorks worked with George Anderson of the Trinitarian Bible Society to get a corrected edition of the Scrivener 1894 text of the Greek Textus Receptus - the edition as compiled, basically, by the King James Translators from Beza 1598, and from the marginal notes of the Stephanus 1550. Is there a chance you could get BibleWorks to give you that text - perhaps in cooperation with the Trinitarian Bible Society - so as then to provide that as a module for purchase? For example: "The NT text of the Authorized Version is based on the editions of Beza, particularly the 1598 edition, and the two final editions of Stephanus. The Trinitarian Bible Society has published this edition of the TR, The New Testament: The Greek Text Underlying the English Authorised Version of 1611, which corresponds to the New Testament in the original Greek according to the text followed in the Authorised Version, edited by F. H. A. Scrivener (Cambridge, 1894)." William O. Einwechter: English Bible Translations–By What Standard? (CHAPEL LIBRARY, 2603 West Wright Street Pensacola, Florida 32505 USA) No publishing date given. Edited June 25, 2018 by Alistair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossjpurdy Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 Why is the GNT- Textus Receptus labeled as the 1550 Stephanus? Rather it appears to be the Scrivener text! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricC Posted August 29, 2022 Author Share Posted August 29, 2022 2 hours ago, rossjpurdy said: Why is the GNT- Textus Receptus labeled as the 1550 Stephanus? Rather it appears to be the Scrivener text! It is possible it is not precisely either one – based on the old, brief comparisons I did (noted in a post above) and Jonathan C. Borland's list below. I wish things were clearer, but unfortunately … Accordance could surely work with TBS to get the digital text that is fully Scrivener's, methinks. On 2/28/2015 at 10:48 AM, Jonathan C. Borland said: Hello Accordancers! I just checked all the places in Matthew where Scrivener's 1894 printed text underlying the KJV differs from Stephanus' 1550, and in only one place does the Accordance module GNT-TRS side with Stephanus 1550 against Scrivener 1894 (that place is Matt 9:33; see below). Stephanus 1550 Matt 2:11 εὗρον (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: εἶδον) Matt 2:23 Ναζαρέτ (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: Ναζαρέθ) Matt 4:13 Ναζαρέτ (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: Ναζαρέθ) Matt 9:18 OM. εἷς (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: ἄρχων εἷς) Matt 9:33 Stephanus 1550 WITH Accordance GNT-TRS: λέγοντες ὅτι (but Scrivener's TR: OM. ὅτι) Matt 10:10 ῥαβδόν (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: ῥάβδους) Matt 10:25 Βεελζεβούλ (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: Βεελζεβούβ) Matt 11:21 Βηθσαϊδάν (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: Βηθσαϊδά) Matt 13:24 σπείροντι (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: σπείραντι) Matt 18:30 ἀλλά (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: ἀλλ᾽) Matt 20:22 ὁ δέ (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: δὲ ὁ) Matt 21:7 ἐπεκάθισεν (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: ἐπεκάθισαν) Matt 21:11 Ναζαρέτ (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: Ναζαρέθ) Matt 21:13 οὐαὶ δὲ ... κρίμα (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: οὐαὶ δὲ ὑμῖν ... εἰσελθεῖν) Matt 21:14 οὐαὶ ὑμῖν ... εἰσελθεῖν (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: οὐαὶ ὑμῖν ... κρίμα) Matt 24:15 ἑστός (but Scrivener's TR and Accordance GNT-TRS: ἑστώς) So at least in Matthew it appears that the accordance GNT-TRS is in fact much closer to Scrivener's 1894 TR than Stephanus' 1550 edition. Sincerely, Jonathan C. Borland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossjpurdy Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 Perhaps someone got a correction in on Mat 9:3 towards the 1550. I am thinking it is Scrivener though. In any case, it is not 1550. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nathan Parker Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 Someone might be able to make a User Bible of it to upload to the Exchange, with permission from TBS if need be. TBS can likely supply a digital text that could be converted into a User Bible. They have the text digitized in an adaptable format now. In the meantime, I’ve been using the new TBS Online Bible in the Accordance web browser. Works well as a workaround until another option becomes available. I also have a leather edition of their Greek NT. Love it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nathan Parker Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 They seem to have released a new, cleaner type version of their leather Greek NT. Trying to decide if I should get it. Westminster Reference Bible would be great in Accordance as well. In the meantime, the web app works great though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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