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LXX Versification Issues (for User Tool)


Lorinda H. M. Hoover
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So a little massaging of the xls file Martin posted has gotten me to a simple but usable User Tool with one exception: the LXX Psalm versification is different than what Accordance uses, so lots of the Psalms are off.

 

Can someone point me in the direction of a chart that spells out the differences? I tried googling without success. If I have to, I'll to it by hand, but that will be very time consuming.

 

Also, anyone know of an easy way, either in NeoOffice/OpenOffice or TextWrangler to quickly change Psalm references by one? (e.g., 118:1-9 to 117:1-9)? [i can do find and replace on a Psalm by Psalm basis, but it would be cool if I could just subtract one automatically]

 

Lorinda

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I didn't notice issues here with vocab generation but I may have a problem here too.

Are you using LXX Rahlfs or Goettingen or ... Russell mentioned on his website that he was using Rahlf's text so I assumed that they would match though the document itself does not mention it. I'll have to some cross checking tonight.

 

Thx

D

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I'm pulling it up in Rahlfs, but it's an Accordance issue. I just tried a different Google search and found the kind of chart I wanted here.

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Are you saying that Accordance's Rahlfs edition uses Masoretic numbering rather than Rahlfs ?

 

Or are you saying that Russell used Masoretic rather than Greek number ?

 

I'm trying to work out which way to use the chart.

 

Thx

D

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Russell used the LXX numbering. But Accordance is reading it as MT references, and thus pulling up the wrong LXX psalms. For example, The January 18 reading is Psalm 11:1-9, but Accordance shows LXX Psalm 10:1-7. This is because I have the tool set to show the LXX, but Accordance assumes I'm using the MT number, and corrects for that, leading to a wrong reference.

 

Lorinda

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Oh man ! that's not cool - ok I'll have to go through and alter the vocab sets tonight. Thank goodness it's all scripted.

 

Thx

D

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Depending on how your scripts work, you may be o.k. If I search for Psalm 11:1-9 in LXX (Rahlfs), I get the right psalm. Similarly, if I select the reference in my user tool and select "Search In" and choose an LXX text, it pulls up correctly. It's only clicking on/hovering over the links that are a problem.

 

Lorinda

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OK - I will go and double check queries I used.

Thanx for the heads up on this issue - I didn't even know it existed.

 

thx

D

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Here is a chart comparing MT and LXX Psalm numbering pulled from a paper of mine.

post-29437-0-23367500-1386074353_thumb.png
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Hey Tony,

 

Thanx for this. It accords with but is more detailed than Jimmy Akin's, specifically in cases like MT 9-10 matching to Greek 9 in two sections.

I think your MT Ps 117-46 needs an additional one to be 117-146.

Now off to check my queries.

 

Thx

D

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Ok so my queries were fine it turns out.

 

Lorinda, I did a user tool test and I now see what you mean. ID produces the wrong result by assuming the ref is MT and then converting it to LXX and getting the wrong verse. It would seem that this is simply a bug. The text that you associate with the tool should govern the ID behaviour and hence the algorithm used to determine how to handle the verse ref I would think. Actually that's not enough. You also need to know the number system of the link. So a full solution requires a way to specify that too.

 

Thx

D

Edited by Daniel Semler
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I think your MT Ps 117-46 needs an additional one to be 117-146.

 

Good catch! I would plead the style guide, but I see I didn't abbreviate the range in the PsOG column.

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Ok so my queries were fine it turns out.

 

Lorinda, I did a user tool test and I now see what you mean. ID produces the wrong result by assuming the ref is MT and then converting it to LXX and getting the wrong verse. It would seem that this is simply a bug. The text that you associate with the tool should govern the ID behaviour and hence the algorithm used to determine how to handle the verse ref I would think. Actually that's not enough. You also need to know the number system of the link. So a full solution requires a way to specify that too.

 

Thx

D

 

See, Joel? Free testing, and we haven't even started the plan yet. ;)

 

(Thanks again for this forum and the free-to-us hosting.)

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Lorinda, thanks for the User Tool. I take it you might be willing to post it here once it's done? (Sounds like a fix is required from Accordance's end, though even an non-hyperlinked User Tool would be useful to me and others.)

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Here is an updated table that fixes the chapter range(s) and removed a couple of odd spaces.

 


I'll add it to the Evernote note, too. After fixing it—thanks, Ken (see below).

post-29437-0-23060500-1418181577_thumb.png

Edited by Tony Pyles
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Good catch! I would plead the style guide, but I see I didn't abbreviate the range in the PsOG column.

 

Must be true for Ps 148-150 as well...mustn’t it? (DOn’t have the style guide to hand)

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Lorinda, thanks for the User Tool. I take it you might be willing to post it here once it's done? (Sounds like a fix is required from Accordance's end, though even an non-hyperlinked User Tool would be useful to me and others.)

Yes, I'll post it here when I have it done, and potentially, to the Facebook group. I'm going to create links that will work properly for the Pslams where the numbering is off, like this:

Ps 9:31-39 [in Accordance Ps 10:10-18]
Where only the underlined reference is highlighted. (although maybe I should change the wording from "in Accordance" to "direct link"] I'll need to add some explanations at the top of the tool. Given work responsibilities and the appearance of one of my infamous multi-day headaches, I'm not sure when I'll get it finished, but I'll aim at before Christmas.

 

 

It would seem that this is simply a bug.

 

Based on this thread, I think it's not so much a bug as a limitation.

 

 

The text that you associate with the tool should govern the ID behaviour and hence the algorithm used to determine how to handle the verse ref I would think. Actually that's not enough. You also need to know the number system of the link. So a full solution requires a way to specify that too.

 

Yep, see my request here. And maybe vote for it? ;)
Tony, thanks for the more detailed chart.
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And I take it no one knows an easy way to tell Text Wrangler or NeoOffice/OpenOffice to subtract 1 from a range of chapter references that include verses, too?

 

Hmm...having said that, I bet in Neo I can split the cells into chapter reference and verse references....then it's fairly simple.

 

Lorinda

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Yep splitting it up and then doing maths on the chapter number and then combining them back together is how I would do it in a spreadsheet.

 

Thx

D

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