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Recommended Accordance to a Friend, but...


William Cross

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Can you provide a screenshot? I don't have Logos 4, so I don't know what the default template screen contains. (Nor do I know what a passage guide or exegetical guide are). With more info, I'd be happy to see if I could create a similar Accordance setup.

 

Lorinda

Here is a screenshot of the passage guide which populates upon entering a text passage (in this case John 1.1). I use L4Mac as well as Accordance; but currently the Mac version of L4 is painstakingly slow and lacks a number of features available to the Windows version.

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Here is a screenshot of the passage guide which populates upon entering a text passage (in this case John 1.1). I use L4Mac as well as Accordance; but currently the Mac version of L4 is painstakingly slow and lacks a number of features available to the Windows version.

 

Here is a sample of the Exegetical Guide - the Exegetical Guide and the Passage Guide are essentially Search All features within a particular Accordance module or Tool set

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As a user of both programs I do appreciate the ability to simply type in a passage, hit "Go" and all purchased resources are listed and available. However, L4 is incredibly slow and unstable for me and has been for a long time. Although it did take a while to "adjust" to Accordance I would not trade its speed and stability. It has great note taking capabilities (which has been my pet peeve with L4) and even though the highlighting schemes are not as extensive in Accordance they are more than adequate and very customizable.

 

In no way do I wish to "dis" any product but for productivity and stability it is hard to beat Accordance. Just my 2 cents worth.

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Here is a sample of the Exegetical Guide - the Exegetical Guide and the Passage Guide are essentially Search All features within a particular Accordance module or Tool set

 

Thanks! I started a new thread here with screen shots, etc. {The link was wrong initially. I think I've got it right this time!}

 

Lorinda

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Is there a way to resize the assistance window? I'm new to Macs but not computers. I have an October 2011 Macbook pro (13") and have been playing with the demo to see if I would like the program. The assistance window takes up a lot of the screen on this laptop so it's not very useful to me.

 

I'd also like to see more options for linking. Specifically I'd like to see an option for setting a driver window (like one other current window program does or the old zondervan program for windows did). This would allow scrolling through a commentary article without the bible text jumping around. I understand that the goal is to keep things simple but I think that this change would make the program a lot more usable for those of us who primarily study in english.

 

Thanks

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Sorry, the Assistant window cannot be resized, but you can disable it from opening on launch in the Preferences, and then just choose to open it from the Window menu.

 

Not sure what you mean by a driver.

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I'd also like to see more options for linking ...

This would allow scrolling through a commentary article without the bible text jumping around.

This is quite simple to do, and there are three ways of doing it:

  1. As a separate "floating" window
  2. As a separate "zone" from your text
  3. In another tab from your text (don't think this is what you're looking for)

Based on what you've mentioned, I think you want the separate zone. To do this, just open your commentary from the Library window.

See the attached image for an example where I searched for wbc, opened the commentary, then used the browser to go to the book intro for Zech whilst my text always at Zech 7... the two are totally un "Tied" (the Accordance term for "linking" between modules in different tabs/zones/workspaces.)

post-19213-027494100 1322198900_thumb.png

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I'd also like to see more options for linking...

 

Just to add to what mikes has replied. Each resource (each will have its own tab) you have in a zone or separate window can be tied to a another resource or not depending on how you want to set it up. You 'tie' them by right clicking on the tab you want 'tie' to the 'driver' resource - then selecting the 'set tab' option - then selecting one of the listed resources that you have open to tie it to.

 

This is very flexible so that you can tie resources how you like. So your study bible might be tied to your bible text and move with that but two commentaries might be tied together so that they move with each other but not with the bible text. You can then save this as a workspace or if you have multiple separate windows a session. Therefore you can easily set up as many options as you want depending on the type of study you are doing.

 

There are many other useful features if you don't want to have commentaries or lexicons open all the time - You can set them up in their own workspace and then use your text to go to them (called amplifying in accordance). This is useful on smaller screens when you do not have the room to display all resources you might want.

 

Hope that helps

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Just to add to what mikes has replied. Each resource (each will have its own tab) you have in a zone or separate window can be tied to a another resource or not depending on how you want to set it up. You 'tie' them by right clicking on the tab you want 'tie' to the 'driver' resource - then selecting the 'set tab' option - then selecting one of the listed resources that you have open to tie it to.

 

This is very flexible so that you can tie resources how you like.

 

 

Thanks, this answered another question I had (I bought a bundle and some resources on the Black Friday sale and am learning how to use the program). What I was suggesting is a one way tie. For example, I could tie a commentary to a bible and moving the bible position would change the commentary position but scrolling through the commentary would not change the bible position. Some commentaries aren't arranged strictly verse by verse. For example they will have an overview then a verse by verse. Going to a bible resource will link to the first section (overview of the chapter) and if I scroll down in the commentary to the verse by verse section the selection on the bible window will move. It would be nice if the bible window could set the position of the commentary window but I could scroll through the commentary without changing the focus verse in the bible window. With a commentary like the WBC that has multiple sections for each pericope (Translation, Notes, Form, and Comments) this would allow someone to read through all the sections on a specific verse without the bible window changing postions as you scroll through the sections. In another program that doesn't do asyncronous linking I work around this by linking and unlinking resources.

 

I think my primary use of the program will be working with the text so this isn't a significant issue for me (this program seems be exceptional at language studies and it is a lot easier to figure out than a popular windows based original languages program I tried unsuccessfully). Now I just need to save up some money for my wishlist :)

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One option is to have the text and the commentary as panes of the same window (i.e. not in separate zones). You can then select the commentary pane and press the ctrl key as you scroll the commentary using the scroll bar which will not affect the other pane.

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Thanks, this answered another question I had (I bought a bundle and some resources on the Black Friday sale and am learning how to use the program). What I was suggesting is a one way tie. For example, I could tie a commentary to a bible and moving the bible position would change the commentary position but scrolling through the commentary would not change the bible position. Some commentaries aren't arranged strictly verse by verse. For example they will have an overview then a verse by verse. Going to a bible resource will link to the first section (overview of the chapter) and if I scroll down in the commentary to the verse by verse section the selection on the bible window will move. It would be nice if the bible window could set the position of the commentary window but I could scroll through the commentary without changing the focus verse in the bible window. With a commentary like the WBC that has multiple sections for each pericope (Translation, Notes, Form, and Comments) this would allow someone to read through all the sections on a specific verse without the bible window changing postions as you scroll through the sections. In another program that doesn't do asyncronous linking I work around this by linking and unlinking resources.

 

I think my primary use of the program will be working with the text so this isn't a significant issue for me (this program seems be exceptional at language studies and it is a lot easier to figure out than a popular windows based original languages program I tried unsuccessfully). Now I just need to save up some money for my wishlist :)

 

I run into this issue with the WBC and just tie/untie it as needed. A one-way tie as you described would be a really nice feature.

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One option is to have the text and the commentary as panes of the same window (i.e. not in separate zones). You can then select the commentary pane and press the ctrl key as you scroll the commentary using the scroll bar which will not affect the other pane.

 

Thanks, That does what I'm looking for. I can have a commentary tied to a bible and still read the entire article in the commentary. I guess I'll need to watch a few more videos to learn all these tricks (Unfortunatly, the CNTTS videos convinced me to buy a few more resources this weekend so I need to be a little careful about which podcasts I watch ;) )

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Unfortunatly, the CNTTS videos convinced me to buy a few more resources this weekend so I need to be a little careful about which podcasts I watch ;) )

Ha, that's too funny. I blame Dr. J for making new Accordance modules so enticing.

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Thanks, That does what I'm looking for. I can have a commentary tied to a bible and still read the entire article in the commentary. I guess I'll need to watch a few more videos to learn all these tricks (Unfortunatly, the CNTTS videos convinced me to buy a few more resources this weekend so I need to be a little careful about which podcasts I watch ;) )

 

 

Hi Mikew

 

Are you using Lion? If so, how do you click on the scroll bar of the commentary while holding the Control key? I'm using Lion, and a touchpad. I can't seem to do that.

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Accordance allows multiple instances of the same resource. Therefore, another option is to open one instance in the same pane as your scripture, which will scroll with the scripture, and to open a second instance in another zone (Accordance will do this automatically if you open the second instance from the tool palette) which will operate independently from the scripture. This works well for me when I use WBC, Hermeneia or NICNT and it can work with any tool.

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I have been using Accordance for the past ten years. I love it. I think you have an amazing program and I continue to invest in resources for it every year.

 

That said, I was very quick to tell my young friend who was switching to the Mac to get Accordance. I went on and on about it and he now owns Accordance with a plethora of modules.

 

He lives a good distance from me (a number of states away) and I recently talked with him on the phone. He brought up Accordance and to my surprise was struggling to use it. How could this be I declared it is simply awesome!

 

He proceeded to tell me that the program is just over whelming to him and that the interface is not so Mac like since most Mac programs now are much more clear with the User Interface as to what to do. He said that since he is just a passive user not preaching or teaching regularly he was not in front of the program enough to remember all of the stuff. I encouraged him to watch the tutorials, but he had...

 

 

Perhaps your friend might like the new Olive Tree BibleReader released today in the Mac App Store. I just downloaded it and have no idea how powerful it is (I'm sure it's no where near as powerful as Accordance) but the user interface is fantastic. It looks like a Mac App built from the ground up. Accordance's UI has always looked like and acted like a PC application to me. Perhaps Accordance can take some clues from Olive Tree?

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Perhaps your friend might like the new Olive Tree BibleReader released today in the Mac App Store. I just downloaded it and have no idea how powerful it is (I'm sure it's no where near as powerful as Accordance) but the user interface is fantastic. It looks like a Mac App built from the ground up. Accordance's UI has always looked like and acted like a PC application to me. Perhaps Accordance can take some clues from Olive Tree?

 

 

Wow. It does not seem to have the searching power of Accordance a first blush, but it is pretty impressive, especially the interface. Very Mac like. The automatic and associated links to relevant information and tags is very cool. The topical associations that appear when searching for a word are awesome. The accessibility of information, store layout, ease of taking notes, ability to add book ribbons and the whole GUI is very compelling. Free is good too. It is very easy to use.

 

Would love to see Accordance implement some of these.

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We are working on a major facelift of the interface, but do not plan to release it for a while. Thanks for your patience! BTW, Accordance has never been a Windows app but it was originally developed for the 68K Classic Mac, and we have always focused more on performance and workflow than on a pretty design. Bible Reader on Mac is a nice port of their mobile app, but I don't think it can do much more.

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We are working on a major facelift of the interface, but do not plan to release it for a while. Thanks for your patience! BTW, Accordance has never been a Windows app but it was originally developed for the 68K Classic Mac, and we have always focused more on performance and workflow than on a pretty design. Bible Reader on Mac is a nice port of their mobile app, but I don't think it can do much more.

 

 

Well, I was quite pleased to see that I could re-download without having to re-purchase the books/bibles which I had already purchased from Olive Tree via my iPad app. And the notes, highlights, bookmarks and reading ribbons all sync to the Mac app from what I had already created on my iPad via their cloud syncing service. I certainly wasn't trying to "shame" Accordance in comparison to Olive Tree's new software, but it is "pretty" and sometimes "pretty" is the first impressions people have, and you know what they say about first impressions. I hope Accordance doesn't take too long to release the new interface they are working on, "Pretty" may win out for future users looking for a new Mac based Bible application.

 

Helen, while I have your attention, could you or would you ask Dr. J to answer my questions to clear up my confusion relating to my posts in the following thread? It's driving me cray. Thanks.

 

http://www.accordancebible.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6693

 

P.S. When things don't seem to work as advertised (either from the written documentation, or instruction such as podcasts) it's not only frustrating, but somewhat disheartening. Something as basic as notes, should't be so confusing.

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Hi Mikew

 

Are you using Lion? If so, how do you click on the scroll bar of the commentary while holding the Control key? I'm using Lion, and a touchpad. I can't seem to do that.

 

I'm using Lion. I'm not at my computer now (using Work PC). I'm sure I just do the two finger scroll in the commentary window. I'm finding the multitouch gestures in Lion to be very user friendly.

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I'm using Lion. I'm not at my computer now (using Work PC). I'm sure I just do the two finger scroll in the commentary window. I'm finding the multitouch gestures in Lion to be very user friendly.

Note the evolution of this topic.

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I'm reminded of the quote: "Never ask a fish what water is like." Those who use Accordance every day are not the ones we should ask about whether the GUI is easy to use.

 

My experience with new users to Accordance is very similar to yours. I have made similar observations as your friend in the past concerning the ease-of-use in Accordance only to be marginalized by some in the forums. Of course, those in the forums are the ones most familiar with Accordance. I'm not trying to be negative, I just don't feel like the concerns of people like your friend are heard. This creates a bad experience for people like your friend and for Accordance.

 

While I like Accordance and use it frequently, there are many things that are not intuitive—you have to know the "tricks." There are other programs (some of which are often criticized for shortcomings in the blog and on this forum) which are easier to use for the casual user or beginner. My hope is that we listen to those like your friend and learn from him and even learn from other Bible software programs to make Accordance an even better product.

 

Dan I have experienced the same marginalization you refer to here. At one point I was thinking why bother saying anything because you'll only be criticized. I think this is a problem. The forum shouldn't be about why something can't be done or a defense of Accordance. This closes the product to new ways of thinking and approaching problems. It seems like ideas are too often squelched into silence. If the idea is found in a competing product and is efficacious it should be considered for adoption.

 

Often the reason an idea is not welcomed is because there are no resources available to address it. Those resources might me funding or manpower. One model might be to tap into the user base as one of the other products does. They have a "Report Typo" feature which makes it easier to report a Typo in their product than in Accordance. Here is an area where Accordance could tap into their users to make their product better. If an Accordance user could easily report a Typo AND suggest a fix. Someone at Accordance could receive the info and apply it. If users could bid on modules they wanted or even invest in funding them. If users could help tag them. There are many many users of Accordance and it would be wise to tap into their willingness to see the product made better. MS and Apple have this same problem in that they have been convinced that they need to shelter their developers from the users. Having been a developer in the past, I understand the need to keep developers focused upon the goals of management, however, I remember that my programs received their most immediately useful improvements from one on one interaction with the users of the programs.

 

Every time I went to operations or to the customers with my procedures and programs and watched them work with them and interacted with the users, I learned something and was able to improve my product. Intuitiveness presents a unique problem. The problem is that this information with regard to Intuitiveness is available only for a short time and only with a brand new user. Once the user begins to acclimate to the GUI they are "conformed" to it to some degree and cannot see it with the pristine eyes of a new user. Perhaps Bible College students would be a good source for this information or some type of user agreed to monitoring of the efforts of new users to learn the GUI would help.

 

Anyway, I think Accordance is a great product and I think the users are a critical source of information as to how to make it better and more useful. I think Accordance can and should create, foster, and nurture an environment of acceptance of criticism (not rants, but reasonable suggestions for improvement) and adopt a policy of gleaning ideas and improvements from the successes of competing products.

 

Thank you William and DanG for your post and comment. As a user who wants to become increasingly proficient with Accordance, but has felt discouraged about making suggestions in the past, I am grateful for your suggestions.

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Hi Helen,

 

Some of the problem is that I am not certain what would make the UI more "friendly" for me. I really didn't get much from the Assistant Window although I hope it helped others. I decided to just turn it off in the preferences. I wish I had a better understanding of my struggle with getting to be proficient with Accordance and could articulate it. All I can think to do is to keep attempting to become more proficient. Perhaps my struggle stems from not having a clean vision of a starting workflow for studying the Bible using Accordance. I just don't know, but I intend to keep trying and praying that I will grow and become a proficient.

 

Robert

 

Robert:

 

I am so sorry you feel this way. I do sometimes answer rather briefly, due to the pressure on my time. However, the Assistant window in 9.3 is designed to do just what you ask: make it easier for the beginner to get started with Accordance, as well as get help. Please do try it and let us know whether it goes some way towards meeting your needs. And please ask away: all comments and suggestions are considered. I am sure you can imagine that after 15 years there are few really new suggestions that haven't been discussed already, or are not already on the list for future implementation.

 

 

 

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Hi Helen,

 

Some of the problem is that I am not certain what would make the UI more "friendly" for me. I really didn't get much from the Assistant Window although I hope it helped others. I decided to just turn it off in the preferences. I wish I had a better understanding of my struggle with getting to be proficient with Accordance and could articulate it. All I can think to do is to keep attempting to become more proficient. Perhaps my struggle stems from not having a clean vision of a starting workflow for studying the Bible using Accordance. I just don't know, but I intend to keep trying and praying that I will grow and become a proficient.

 

Robert

 

I have also turned off the Assistant Window, the intentions were good but it doesn't help much.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said: "Perhaps my struggle stems from not having a clean vision of a starting workflow for studying the Bible using Accordance." Those are my thoughts exactly. Why aren't there any pre-configured workspaces designed for specific types of study? Another problem I have is trying to understand just how all of the additional tools (commentaries, dictionaries etc..) come into play in Accordance. I can't help but mention how intuitive the Resource Manager is in Olive Tree's iPad BibleReader (and now their Mac BibleReader).

 

Again, I'm not putting Accordance down, there's nothing out there that I'm aware of that is as fast and powerful as Accordance when doing a search. However, the Resource Manager in Olive Tree just pulls everything together for me in that App and helps me to see the BIG picture at a glance in using a digital Bible with additional resources. Olive Tree's software is mainly designed for the iPad, and the Mac version is just an extension of the mobile version, but their iPad version is excellent, and with as many tools and resources that Accordance offers, their iPad application seems to be no more then a simple basic text reader as the user interface is quite frankly the poorest I've seen in a mobile Bible app. So, I foresee using Accordance primarily as my "at home via desktop/laptop" study, research and documentation gathering tool, but Olive Tree as my main mobile Bible tool. As a matter of fact, when I start running out of room on my 64 GB iPad, Accordance will be removed before any other Bible application I currently own, it's just not that useful to be honest.

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This thread has become too jumbled to follow. I am splitting off the comments that relate to the iOS to a new topic in the iOS Forums. Please try to keep to the initial topic when you reply, or start a new topic if yours is a different subject.

 

We do appreciate all the feedback, and will be considering every suggestion carefully in the coming days, so that we can make Accordance easier for the new user.

 

I do encourage anyone having trouble getting started with Accordance to invest some time watching Dr. J's excellent podcast series Lighting the Lamp. The podcast page lists them three ways so it is easy to follow a recommended sequence or pick a relevant topic. You can also look for a free training seminar to attend, or even call our tech support for a personal screenshare tutorial. The Help files in the Help menu are designed to answer your questions.

 

Also, those who want Accordance to pull up all their resources that relate to a particular passage or word or phrase only need to use our improved Search All tab which does exactly that.

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