Fr. Rusty Matheny Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Dear all: I could use some help/advice. I have used the TDNT Unabridged as well as Abridged for a long time. Years ago I noticed that most other Lexicons referenced the TDNT in one way or another, thus, they became part of my study/research life. I have them in both hardcopy as well as in digital domains. However, for the last couple of years or so, I see more and more references to the BDAG as well as Halot and usually see them bundled together for sales. Is the TDNT now obsolete? BDAG better, more accurate, not as biased as TDNT? Is the difficulty of usage concerning this resource (BDAG/HALOT) in the same category as TDNT for one with just basic Original Language skills ? TDNT has been very useful to me, but is not fast, I have to work at it. I have looked at several Screenshots, they only help me so much, but from them BDAG seems very similar in presentation form with TDNT. Paid reviews only help so much. So to this group I ask these questions, due to both advanced scholarship and students being represented. Lastly, are these the best Lexicons available and can anyone give a review of the leanings/Bias? ( this is not a negative question, everyone comes to study "from somewhere" theologically. Thanks for your time. Rusty+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Jenney Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Dear all: I could use some help/advice. I have used the TDNT Unabridged as well as Abridged for a long time. Years ago I noticed that most other Lexicons referenced the TDNT in one way or another, thus, they became part of my study/research life... Is the TDNT now obsolete? BDAG better, more accurate, not as biased as TDNT? Is the difficulty of usage concerning this resource (BDAG/HALOT) in the same category as TDNT for one with just basic Original Language skills ? ...Lastly, are these the best Lexicons available and can anyone give a review of the leanings/Bias? ( this is not a negative question, everyone comes to study "from somewhere" theologically. Thanks for your time. Rusty+ Hi, Rusty! TDNT/TDOT have some great scholarship in them and very complete data for each period. However, their conclusions are generally dubious. The linguistic theory underlying them has been shown wanting [e.g. that a word's single appearance carries the sum total of its etymological and historical weight]. Many scholars are now avoiding them for that reason [or just carefully picking and choosing what they use]. BDAG/HALOT (as well as LS) are not as ambitious, but their articles are more trustworthy. In part, that's because they don't try to draw as many conclusions. Both are considered scholarly standards. BDB Complete offers numerous hypertext links to other material available in Accordance. NIDNTT/NIDOTTE have very good articles which can be easily accessed by those with little or no knowledge of the original languages. Though too conservative to be considered a scholarly standard in universities, they are my wordbooks of choice. They offer me information as well as demonstrating how to communicate it to English-only users. Lately, I have found myself consulting BDAG/HALOT, then NIDNTT/NIDOTTE, and avoiding TDNT/TDOT entirely. However, everyone has their own preferences—and mine may not be the same as yours. I've attached two screen shots, one Hebrew and one Greek, each with four lexicons open to them same article. These should give you some insight into their basic similarities and differences. [Edit: figured I might as well go ahead and attach another screen shot. This one is BDB vs. BDB Complete.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fr. Rusty Matheny Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 Hi, Rusty! TDNT/TDOT have some great scholarship in them and very complete data for each period. However, their conclusions are generally dubious. The linguistic theory underlying them has been shown wanting [e.g. that a word's single appearance carries the sum total of its etymological and historical weight]. Many scholars are now avoiding them for that reason [or just carefully picking and choosing what they use]. BDAG/HALOT (as well as LS) are not as ambitious, but their articles are more trustworthy. In part, that's because they don't try to draw as many conclusions. Both are considered scholarly standards. BDB Complete offers numerous hypertext links to other material available in Accordance. NIDNTT/NIDOTTE have very good articles which can be easily accessed by those with little or no knowledge of the original languages. Though too conservative to be considered a scholarly standard in universities, they are my wordbooks of choice. They offer me information as well as demonstrating how to communicate it to English-only users. Lately, I have found myself consulting BDAG/HALOT, then NIDNTT/NIDOTTE, and avoiding TDNT/TDOT entirely. However, everyone has their own preferences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fr. Rusty Matheny Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 Dr. J: I have Colin Browns work in hard copy at my office-Original series. To be honest, have not used them nearly as much in recent years as I have most things in my software. ( keep my reference books in case of computer failure ). Do you think the updates to this work make it worth buying for computer work? I do not have BDAG/Halot at all. New Greek text purchase: Greek Text- NA-27 ? Thanks Dr. J, Sorry for being a pain. R+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Jenney Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Dr. J: I have Colin Browns work in hard copy at my office-Original series. To be honest, have not used them nearly as much in recent years as I have most things in my software. ( keep my reference books in case of computer failure ). Do you think the updates to this work make it worth buying for computer work? I do not have BDAG/Halot at all. New Greek text purchase: Greek Text- NA-27 ? Thanks Dr. J, Sorry for being a pain. R+ Rusty, Thanks! You are certainly not a pain. I really enjoy answering users' questions. That's true especially when they are here in the forum, as others listen in on our conversations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fr. Rusty Matheny Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 Rusty, Thanks! You are certainly not a pain. I really enjoy answering users' questions. That's true especially when they are here in the forum, as others listen in on our conversations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Decker Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Tim's reply is on target. TDNT has lots of data, but its methodology is deficient. For NT study, BDAG is indispensable and worth every penny of the $150 (list). It would be worth it at double the price. There is no other resource remotely comparable to the wealth of info contained in it. It is not perfect, but it's the best available. Perhaps you'd find my page devoted to BDAG helpful; it contains a variety of resources including an early draft of the "how to use BDAG" essay that appears in my Koine Reader. You can find it here: NTResources.com/bdag.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fr. Rusty Matheny Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 Tim's reply is on target. TDNT has lots of data, but its methodology is deficient. For NT study, BDAG is indispensable and worth every penny of the $150 (list). It would be worth it at double the price. There is no other resource remotely comparable to the wealth of info contained in it. It is not perfect, but it's the best available. Perhaps you'd find my page devoted to BDAG helpful; it contains a variety of resources including an early draft of the "how to use BDAG" essay that appears in my Koine Reader. You can find it here: NTResources.com/bdag.html Thank you Professor Decker: Read your review, it is helpful. ( Liked: sell your car if you have to! -smile) Also reading around on your blog, interesting and informative. Thanks again. Rusty+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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