iPad

[Joel Brown]

If you have everything Accordance offers you'll need about 15 Gigs to download it all to an iPad, but most people don't have anything like all our modules.

 

Our iPhone version will initially be a rather basic, though very cool, app. Later we hope to add more features, and support for the Maps etc.

 

To directly answer the question, most users won't need more than a few hundred megabytes, if even. Even the top power users will probably only need a few gigabytes. And it will be easy to control what is moved over and what isn't.

[DanG]

To directly answer the question, most users won't need more than a few hundred megabytes, if even. Even the top power users will probably only need a few gigabytes. And it will be easy to control what is moved over and what isn't.

 

What about the guy (me) who only has 1 gigabyte free now? Will there be an alternative or will all modules have to be on your machine?

[Joel Brown]

To directly answer your question, this will not be a cloud based application. There won't be an option to 'stream' the text to your mobile device.

 

But to more indirectly answer your question, for the space-concious user, a surprising amount of information can get on there. Your average non-tagged bible text is around 12 megs, your average tagged english text is around 16. (Same as BHS-W4 + GNT is around 16). So even if you put 20 translations on there, thats 300 megs. If you even want 20 translations, of course. Tools obviously vary, but the text based ones are much smaller than the picture-laden. For example, Anchor is only 145 megs, BDAG is 30 megs, even the entirety of Word is 270 megs. So, as a test case, if we were to fill up just 650 megs, you could put the following:

 

Program (a few megs)

8 texts/translations, including Gk and Hb original languages: 100 megs

Anchor: 145

WBC: 270

EBC: 70

BDAG: 30

 

All of that totaled together is 650 megs, not even taking up your 1 gig. And I'm picking specifically large modules. Really, the space comes from the heavy picture ones, such as PhotoGuide 3, Bible Art, BAR Archive, DSS Images, or the Atlas. Users that have a few gigs wouldn't mind putting them on there, but more space conscious users could work without them, throwing them on when necessary or if stuff is cleared up.

 

Sorry for the more convoluted response, but to me, one could easily get a massive amount of information on there without even getting close to a gig.

 

If you are ever curious as to how the modules break down, look inside [Accordance Folder]/Modules/Texts and /Tools. You can get a good idea for how big each file is and do some rough calculations.

 

Does this help?

[Robb B]

I really like that the Accordance iPad app will not be a cloud-based app. I could see having a few texts in the cloud, but by and large it makes more sense to follow Olive Tree's model and have the texts downloaded to your device, especially since not everyone has 3G.

 

So much chatter from Helen and Joel has me wondering if we might see any preliminary alpha screenshots soon?

[DanG]

Joel: thanks for the details. Very helpful.

 

Personally, I'd rather have the choice between cloud-based modules or machine-based modules or a mix of both. I don't live where I have 3G or WiFi all the time. But when I do have it, it would be great to take advantage of it! I would vote for flexibility.

[circuitrider]

I think it is amazing for reading. Whenever I want to read an article from an Accordance module, I have been exporting it as a pdf and using GoodReader to read it on my iPad.

 

 

That sounds like a great idea. Can you explain how you did it?

 

Thanks!

[Robb B]

Sure, I can explain it pretty simply.

 

First, find what you want to read on your iPad. Let's just use the Anchor module for an example. Let's say I want to read the article "Theology, Biblical (History of)." Open to that spot in the dictionary. Then, in the browser on the left, right-click on the title of the article and choose "Select Range." That will select the entire article. Click the search button (which, notice, became active when you selected the range) so that it finds all the paragraphs in your article. Go to the Show menu on the right and choose "Article." That will eliminate everything that is not part of the article you want to read. At this point, you have a couple options. One is to use the print feature in Accordance and save as pdf. However, I find copying it to a word processor is easier. So I'll take that route. I change my text font to 12 point (using command-t and changing it there), then select all and copy. Then I paste it all into my word processor (I'm using Pages 09). From there, I change the paper size to Organizer L (which is a half-sheet paper size) and set margins to .5" all the way around. After that, I export it to pdf.

 

At this point, you can get it into GoodReader by emailing it to yourself, saving it to your iDisk, or putting it somewhere else accessible via GoodReaders network/internet options.

 

It sounds complicated at first, but it's really simple once you get it down. You could even set up a custom template in your word processor that you open for this kind of thing. In all, this usually takes me less than a minute from start to finish. I hope this helps.

[circuitrider]

Thanks for the tip!

 

I did everything you suggested except for changing the page size and margins, it still worked well. I was wondering why the paper size and margin change?

 

I transferred the PDF via usb by using the GoodReader File Sharing tool in iTunes.

 

Thanks again, I will definitely be using this info.

[Robb B]

I change the paper size out of preference. The iPad screen is about the size of a half-sheet of paper, so there is minimal scaling up or down in GoodReader when you change the page size, making it easier for me to read. If you really wanted to get particular, you could create a custom paper-size the exact size of the iPad screen, and then it would look perfect in GoodReader.

[Paul Daunno]

Then I paste it all into my word processor (I'm using Pages 09).

 

Robb,

 

If you just saved the Pages file without exporting to PDF and had the Pages iPad app, I assume it could be read that way too?

 

-Paul

[michaelcriner]

I really like that the Accordance iPad app will not be a cloud-based app. I could see having a few texts in the cloud, but by and large it makes more sense to follow Olive Tree's model and have the texts downloaded to your device, especially since not everyone has 3G.

 

So much chatter from Helen and Joel has me wondering if we might see any preliminary alpha screenshots soon?

 

Agreed. I would rather it be downloaded onto the iPad. The one thing I don't like about Olive Tree (or at least I can't figure it out) is copy/paste option. Sometimes I read a great quote but can't really do anything with it! Just one hope I suppose.

 

All this chatter makes me think something is in the works and coming close to being completed. That being said, until I see the dove with the olive branch, I won't get too excited. ;-) Here's to hope though!!

[Rob Ferguson]

How about "No, because I'm not buying an iPad." But I would love an app for my iPhone!

I also would not buy an iPad but would go for an app to use aspects of the Accordance I already have, provided they are on device not "on a cloud".

[Rob Ferguson]

I'll vote for an iphone version. With a macbook and an iphone I feel no need for ipad as well. iPhone can slip in your pocket (pocket bible) and you have the Word with you everywhere you go.

 

There are a couple of good Bibles for iPhone, but Accordance for iPhone would be great.

I agree whole heartedly. I am in China and the iPod and my Mac are perfect here in a remote environment. There is no wifi where I live-except in my apartment-so the Mac is a must and the "pocket bible" is perfect for mobility and discretion here, and battery life is great with the settings of the device adjusted (unlike iPhone, from what I have heard). I just wish Apple would also make an electronic paperback sized device which would still fit my pocket but give me a larger screen size.

[Rob Ferguson]

To directly answer your question, this will not be a cloud based application. There won't be an option to 'stream' the text to your mobile device.

 

But to more indirectly answer your question, for the space-concious user, a surprising amount of information can get on there. Your average non-tagged bible text is around 12 megs, your average tagged english text is around 16. (Same as BHS-W4 + GNT is around 16). So even if you put 20 translations on there, thats 300 megs. If you even want 20 translations, of course. Tools obviously vary, but the text based ones are much smaller than the picture-laden. For example, Anchor is only 145 megs, BDAG is 30 megs, even the entirety of Word is 270 megs. So, as a test case, if we were to fill up just 650 megs, you could put the following:

 

Program (a few megs)

8 texts/translations, including Gk and Hb original languages: 100 megs

Anchor: 145

WBC: 270

EBC: 70

BDAG: 30

 

All of that totaled together is 650 megs, not even taking up your 1 gig. And I'm picking specifically large modules. Really, the space comes from the heavy picture ones, such as PhotoGuide 3, Bible Art, BAR Archive, DSS Images, or the Atlas. Users that have a few gigs wouldn't mind putting them on there, but more space conscious users could work without them, throwing them on when necessary or if stuff is cleared up.

 

Sorry for the more convoluted response, but to me, one could easily get a massive amount of information on there without even getting close to a gig.

 

If you are ever curious as to how the modules break down, look inside [Accordance Folder]/Modules/Texts and /Tools. You can get a good idea for how big each file is and do some rough calculations.

 

Does this help?

Thank you Joel.

 

Well said, as also Helen's previous comment.

 

I look forward in due course to the iPod version.

[Rob Ferguson]

I'll vote for an iphone version. With a macbook and an iphone I feel no need for ipad as well. iPhone can slip in your pocket (pocket bible) and you have the Word with you everywhere you go.

 

There are a couple of good Bibles for iPhone, but Accordance for iPhone would be great.

 

I agree. I am in China and the iPod is a discrete size (and with great battery time with many of the power hungry settings set on low or off) Folk here who have the iPhone complain about the battery life. There is no wifi where I am other than in my apartment so my Mac and iPod are perfectly suited for such purposes. I just wish that Apple would also develop an electronic paperback sized device so I had a bigger screen size.

[michaelcriner]

I agree. I am in China and the iPod is a discrete size (and with great battery time with many of the power hungry settings set on low or off) Folk here who have the iPhone complain about the battery life. There is no wifi where I am other than in my apartment so my Mac and iPod are perfectly suited for such purposes. I just wish that Apple would also develop an electronic paperback sized device so I had a bigger screen size.

 

You do know you're commenting in an iPad forum? I understand the desire for an iPhone/iPod app, but if you have your MacBook *always* w/ you in China or wherever you are, then why the need for Accordance on a smaller screen? Accordance is wise to pursue an iPad app... It's simply the future. Also, you're asking Apple to create a tablet the size of a kindle/nook? Be ready to wait for a couple of years. IMO.

 

Either way, I'm sure Accordance will develop two apps: one for iPhone/iPod and the other for iPad, each with different functions/uses. I gather this from the fact that you can do more on the iPad (writing wise) than on the iPhone/iPod. In fact, I write all of my talks each Sunday on the iPad and have had zero problems!

[DanG]

To directly answer your question, this will not be a cloud based application. There won't be an option to 'stream' the text to your mobile device.

 

Joel,

 

Thanks again for your response. I wonder if you can help me understand your reasoning for not making modules available from the cloud as an "option."

 

This seems unnecessarily limiting. It will limit the modules I have available at an given time, thereby limiting how I can use the application. (Granted, I could erase alot of what I already have on my machine to make room for 8GB of Accordance modules I already own, but then I am limiting how I can use my machine for other things.)

 

I do understand some of the advantages of having the modules actually reside on the machine. What I don't understand is not having the option of using cloud based modules in addition to that.

 

By not making the choice even available between cloud-based or machine-based or a mix of both, you are then forcing me to choose what modules I will install and those I will leave off my machine. The result is that I will never have access to ALL of the resources I have in Accordance.

 

By limiting my options, you are limiting the usefulness of your product to me and therefore it's worth. (On the other hand, if the app is free, then it will be worth more than I paid for it. And I'll never look a gift horse in the mouth! However, I can't help but think that I would still find myself sitting in Starbucks wishing I had loaded that one module on my phone before I left on the trip or that I could access it over the internet!)

Edited May 24, 2010 by DanG

[Julia Falling]

Hey

[RobM]

I am unable to imagine doing anything extensive on a screen as small as the iPhone/iPod. ... Doing more than a simple search in Accordance, or reading from a couple of texts or tools seems impractical. The screen doesn't seem big enough to have parallel texts open.

 

I can certainly imagine doing many of the Accordance functions on my iPhone. I don't know what the design of the app will be but one possibility would be to design it similar to Safari for iPhone; namely, be able to open multiple 'tabs' and switch back and forth among them. With this kind of set up, one could perhaps triple click (or tap rather) a word to amplify to BDAG or HALOT in a separate 'tab' to read the relevant portion. I can see doing word searches and even some basic grammatical searches as well. I don't have an iPad and probably won't get one in the foreseeable future. So I personally would love an iPhone app that is at least close to fully featured for 'leisure' reading/searching.

 

As for parallel texts on the screen... Olive Tree does this quite nicely and it is neither cumbersome nor too small (in my opinion).

[Julia Falling]

Rob

[Rod Decker]

I wonder if you can help me understand your reasoning for not making modules available from the cloud as an "option."

 

I don't know the thinking of OakSoft, but I can guess one factor: cost to the company. Who is going to pay for the cloud service? And who is going to maintain it? It's fine for Google, Amazon, MS, and Apple to offer cloud services for similar apps, but last I checked they are a bit bigger than OakSoft. Big companies can afford some options that are not realistic for others. Whether other companies who aspire to bigness can maintain it over the long term remains to be seen. I'd also guess that if OakSoft offered cloud service as an optional subscription cost, the interest would drop sharply. I think they've made the best choice on this one. They probably have other reasons, and perhaps I'm wrong on the cost factor, but I'm content. And I'll be more so when I'm running Accordance on an iPad--which I don't own. Yet.

[Helen Brown]

Rod: FYI the company is OakTree Software, not OakSoft. That was our original domain name, and we still forward from it, but now we also do business as Accordance, but never as OakSoft.

 

I think your point on the cost of maintaining "cloud" computing is well taken. We aren't yet quite as large as Google.

[Rod Decker]

Whoops! Sorry on the name; I guess the old one is stuck in my memory.

[Michael Strachan]

We aren't yet quite as large as Google.

 

YET....

[DanG]

I don't know the thinking of OakSoft, but I can guess one factor: cost to the company. Who is going to pay for the cloud service? And who is going to maintain it? It's fine for Google, Amazon, MS, and Apple to offer cloud services for similar apps, but last I checked they are a bit bigger than OakSoft. Big companies can afford some options that are not realistic for others. Whether other companies who aspire to bigness can maintain it over the long term remains to be seen. I'd also guess that if OakSoft offered cloud service as an optional subscription cost, the interest would drop sharply. I think they've made the best choice on this one. They probably have other reasons, and perhaps I'm wrong on the cost factor, but I'm content. And I'll be more so when I'm running Accordance on an iPad--which I don't own. Yet.

 

So... what I hear you saying is that OakTree is just too small to provide that level of functionality. Therefore, the logical conclusion is that anyone who desires "cloud service" will have have to look elsewhere--to a larger company--probably a competitor. Really???