Copy and Copy As Citation cutting off first part of verse if initial reference is not also copied.

[Lorinda H. M. Hoover]

I've seen this bug around off an on for some time.  See, for example, this post from almost a year ago.  Previously I couldn't replicate it, but today I figured out when it triggers and when it doesn't.  

 

Today I selected the following text from Jeremiah 29 (NIV2011-G/K). I was working in a context tab, but I can reproduce it in a search tab.:

 

Notice that the entirety of the (visible) text is selected.  I chose "Copy as Citation" and this is what pasted:

 

 

Notice that the first part of verse 4 is missing.

 

If I go back to Accordance and make sure to include "Jer. 29:4" in the selection, the entirety of the verse copies and pastes correctly.

 

I was able to reliably reproduce this with this passage.  I tried briefly to do so with Genesis 1, and it did not happen, but I noticed when working on selecting the Jeremiah passage that there appear to be several hidden characters/tabs between the verses reference and the first visible text.  Try selecting that line slowly and you will see what I mean).  So it may be that the passage in question also has to start with tabs as well to trigger this bug.

 

I'm in a bit of a rush at the moment, but let me know if you need more specific steps and I'll try to write them out when I have a chance.  

 

[Lorinda H. M. Hoover]

Ran into this one again today, working with a different passage.  Not sure why I originally posted in "Feedback" and not "Bugs".  @Dr. Nathan Parker Could you move it to bugs for me?

 

Today this happened in the most current version of Accordance Aleph, but it's been around in the production level of Accordance for months if not years, so it's not beta specific.

 

I'm working on a 2017 era Macbook with Intel chips and Ventura as the OS.  

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Moved it for you. Are there some steps I can try to reproduce this on my system?

[Lorinda H. M. Hoover]

Nathan:  Here are some clear steps.  I haven't experimented a lot to see if the translation being used matters or not, thus I specify one here where I know it will happen.  (Although earlier today it happened with the CEB)

 

In a text tab set to use the NIV11-Enhanced G/K, search for Jeremiah 29.  

Hit command-T and make sure that "Show as" is set to either "Paragaphs" or "Paragraphs with Space"

Hover over the wide empty space between the verse notation for Jer. 29:4 and the first word of that verse: Note that several rounded rectangles are highlighted; I am suspicious that this is part of the problem.

Now select the text of Jer. 29:4-7, begin sure to start the selection after the verse notation and before the first word.  (See screen shot in first post of this thread)

control-click/two finger click/right click and choose either "Copy as Citation" or "Copy."

Paste into a word processor file, user edit window, etc.  Note that the first part of the verse is missing.  This is what I get when I do so:

Quote

 

Jeremiah 29:4-7 (NIV11-GKE)

⁴ the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says to all those I carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon:

⁵ “Build houses and settle down; plant gardens and eat what they produce.

⁶ Marry and have sons and daughters; find wives for your sons and give your daughters in marriage, so that they too may have sons and daughters. Increase in number there; do not decrease.

⁷ Also, seek the peace and prosperity of the city to which I have carried you into exile. Pray to the LORD for it, because if it prospers, you too will prosper.”

 

Note that it is missing the first few words of verse 4 (This is what)

If you experiment with starting the selection at different places in that long empty space, including just to the left of the first word, I think you will find that exactly how much is missing varies slightly.

 

Now, select Jeremiah 29:4-7 again from this same search tab, but make sure to start the selection before the verse reference for verse 4.  Then Copy or Copy as Citation.  When I do so, I get:

 

Quote

 

Jeremiah 29:4-7 (NIV11-GKE)

⁴   This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says to all those I carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon:

⁵ “Build houses and settle down; plant gardens and eat what they produce.

⁶ Marry and have sons and daughters; find wives for your sons and give your daughters in marriage, so that they too may have sons and daughters. Increase in number there; do not decrease.

⁷ Also, seek the peace and prosperity of the city to which I have carried you into exile. Pray to the LORD for it, because if it prospers, you too will prosper.”

 

 

Note that this is not specific to Jeremiah 29.  Today I was working in Mark 1 (in the CEB) and had it happen.  As I noted in the first post, it happens quite frequently to me.  I used Jeremiah 29 (and the NIV G/KE)  in these steps because that's what I used for the screen shot back in the OP.  As I mentioned there, it's something that happens quite frequently for me, and has for quite some time.  Only in September did I realize why it happens sometimes and not others,  and how to reliably reproduce it. 

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Thanks. I wasn't able to reproduce this on my Intel iMac Pro. Are you on Intel or Apple Silicon?

 

If anyone else here can reproduce it, that would be great. Otherwise I may recommend you email this one to Tech Support to see if they can reproduce it.

[Lorinda H. M. Hoover]

As I mentioned in my second post, I'm using an Intel machine.  I'll try to check tomorrow and see if I can reproduce on the Windows machine at work. 

 

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Sounds good. Thanks! I tested on my Intel Mac and couldn't reproduce the issue. Let me know what happens on your Windows machine. I might want Tech Support to take a look.

[Lawrence]

@Lorinda H. M. Hoover

 

Does this happen only with the text that has 'enhanced' in its name?

I tested it using the regular NIV text on a Windows machine, and it copied correctly.

Selecting the space between the verse number and the first word didn't produce rounded rectangles - it just highlighted regular-looking spaces.

[Lorinda H. M. Hoover]

Thank you both, Nathan and Lawrence for your input.  This gets curiouser and curiouser!  I was certain that I had seen this also with the CEB, which is not a tagged text at all, but now I'm wondering if my memory on that point is faulty. 

 

-I cannot reproduce this on Windows.  When I tried, I noticed that I was not seeing a big gap between the verse number and the start of the verse on Windows, not even with the NIV-G/KE text.  

 

-I went back to my Mac, and the other translations I checked--including the NIV (1984) G/K--no E, and completely untagged NIV (!984)--do not reproduce the issue here.  

 

In the process of trying to sort this out, I paid more attention to the highlighted rectangles I mentioned earlier; the ones that show up in the gap between the verse reference and the beginning of the verse.  I realized that when they show up (when I hover my "mouse" in that area), the ID shows info, and that when I hover over words in verse 4, the ID info is for the wrong words (i.e. LORD shows up in the ID box as אֱלֹהִים instead of  יהוה.)

 

I then wondered if there was an issue with how I had the text display set, so I hit Command-T, and discovered I was using a Custom theme.  I shifted to a pre-set theme (Readability), and the issue with verse 4 disappeared, but the same type of issue happened with verse 10 and verse 15.  I made a screen cast for you showing both the initial issue, and what happens when I change Themes.  Note: different themes have different effects on this issue.  I haven't had a chance to systematically work out which ones do which.  In screen cast I use Readability as the example of stuff shifting.

 

 

 

Also, here are screenshots of my custom theme setup

 

 

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Thanks! I'd recommend emailing Tech Support on this so we can pinpoint what's going on.

 

https://www.accordancebible.com/sources-of-support/

 

Keep us posted how it goes!

[Lorinda H. M. Hoover]

FYI: I got busy with other things, but did finally email tech support today about this. 

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Keep us posted!

[Lorinda H. M. Hoover]

See also this post by another user, which does not mention the copy issue, but does mention the big gaps and the tagging problems.  

 

And, for the record, I have not heard back from support about this yet.  I'd forgotten I'd even emailed, so it's not like I've been waiting on pins and needles for an answer. 

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Thanks! Also chatting with our programmers about it.

[Lorinda H. M. Hoover]

Today this happened to me with the CEB.  I had a search tab set for Mark 8:27-9:8; I selected all the the text, but not the first verse reference:

 

 

 

When I used "copy as citation" and pasted into Neo Office, the first word (Jesus) and part of the second (and) were missing.  What pasted was:

 

Quote

Mark 8:27-9:8 (CE

²⁷ d his disciples went into the villages near Caesarea Philippi. On the way he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that I am?”

 

²⁸ They told him, “Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah, and still others one of the prophets.”

.....[the rest pasted normally, did not include for space reasons]

 

 

 

So, the copy issue does not just the NIV-G/KE.

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Thanks for that!

[Lorinda H. M. Hoover]

Happened again today with Nehemiah 9:5 in the CEB.   I had a theory that there is some invisible special character or the like in the aparently empty space between the verse number and the first letter of th text.  So I copied the verse starting before the verse reference and pasted in NeoOffice:

 

Notice the gray rectangle.  I didn't know what it represented, but I realized I might get more info by pasting into Word and turning on the "view nonprinting characters":

 

 

Some googling determined that those two blue circles are non-breaking spaces.   I'm guessing that their presence is part of what is creating the copying problem. 

Edited February 8 by Lorinda H. M. Hoover

[Andrew Patterson]

So, I haven't had this issue since using macOS, but I used to battle it ALL THE TIME on Windows. I noticed it especially when Copy As>Citation for NASB—it seemed any verses or selections with footnotes were problematic.

 

I last used the Windows app primarily mid-Dec, so it could be irrelevant as it's been some time.

[Lorinda H. M. Hoover]

Well, this has been happening to me for a year or more, so it might be the same, although when I tried a while back I couldn't replicate it on Windows.  If I have a chance I'll try the Nehemiah 9 test case with CEB on Windows and post back.  Not sure, though if I'll have the free time to do so when I'm in the office (where said Windows machine is)

[Lorinda H. M. Hoover]

Had a chance to test this on the Windows 10 machine at the office today, after updating to 14.0.9.  (Still using the Aleph).  I cannot replicate it, but playing around with different copying methods, I discovered this:

 

The non breaking spaces are still present when I copy (not as Citation) from Accordance, but they are stripped when I Copy As Citation.  I need to check what happens on my Mac when I copy as Citation and include the verse reference, which won't happen until Sunday at the earliest.  But it does appear that the problem I'm seeing on my Mac is related to stripping the non-breaking spaces.  On my Mac, if the verse reference is not included, then Accordance strips more than just the spaces.  

[Lorinda H. M. Hoover]

Here is another CEB example, from an Intel Mac running Ventura and Accordance Aleph 14.0.9.

 

 

paste result is:

 

Mark 10:32-52 (CEB)

³² o Jerusalem, with Jesus in the lead. The disciples were amazed while the others following behind were afraid. Taking the Twelve aside again, he told them what was about to happen to him. ³³ “Look!” he said. “We’re going up to Jerusalem. The Human One will be handed over to the chief priests and the legal experts. They will condemn him to death and hand him over to the Gentiles. ³⁴ They will ridicule him, spit on him, torture him, and kill him. After three days, he will rise up.”....

 

If I start the selection before the verse reference and do a "straight" copy and paste into Word, then turn on show hidden characters, I see this:

 

Those two blue circles before the tab indicator are non-breaking spaces.  I continue to believe that this is part of the problem.  There appear to be non breaking spaces after the verse reference every time a new paragraph starts. 

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Thanks for the additional tests. This is on our programmer's list to look into, but we don't have a specific ETA yet.

[Lorinda H. M. Hoover]

Is it helpful for me to posts more test cases as I run across them, or do you have enough information for now?

 

while it is annoying when I run across it, I understand the need to prioritize. 

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

We'll take any feedback you have, so if you come across anything, you're welcome to share it. We may have enough to investigate this, but it never hurts to have additional data. :-)

[Lorinda H. M. Hoover]

Logging another Data point:  this is the CEB; search entry was Nehemiah 10ff :

 

 

What pastes is:

Nehemiah 11:1-22 (CEB)

¹ ers of the people lived in Jerusalem. The rest of the people cast lots to bring one out of ten to live in the holy city of Jerusalem, while the remaining nine stayed in the other towns. ² The people blessed those who agreed to live in Jerusalem.....

 

Note that "The lead" is missing.

 

This in in Accordance Aleph 14.0.9., on a MacBook running Ventura.

 

Edited April 11 by Lorinda H. M. Hoover