Create an option in Accordance Preferences to show or hide pilcrows in texts

[Solly]

We have Accordance preferences to show or hide Red Letter text and other such text features. It would be very useful to users needing text displayed by verse to have the option to show or hide the pilcrow paragraph markers in the general text preferences. This is important when copying verses to word processors used in creating academic papers.

 

—Joseph

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Thanks! I added this to my feature requests list tonight.

[David Lang]

I wrote this in the thread on displaying pilcrows, but I'll include it here as well:

 

If the complaint is that the pilcrow is copied when you do a normal copy, STOP doing a normal copy. Instead, use Copy as Citation. In the Citation settings of the Preferences, you can set the export of text to display as Paragraphs even if you display the text as separate verses. When you Copy as Citation, the pilcrows will be eliminated and you'll have a new line break at that place in the pasted text.

[Joe Weaks]

3 hours ago, David Lang said:

STOP doing a normal copy. Instead, use Copy as Citation.

 

This isn't really a solution in every instance. This helps folks who want Separate verses displayed, but want to copy as Paragraphs. But, some folks are in fact wanting to copy/export text as separate verses (and I'd venture a guess that 99% of them also don't want the pilcrows in there).

That said, I still like the decision to include them when displaying texts as separate verses since it is, as you agreed, and important part of the translation.

[Kristin]

15 minutes ago, Joe Weaks said:

That said, I still like the decision to include them when displaying texts as separate verses since it is, as you agreed, and important part of the translation

 

Hi @Joe Weaks,

I was confused before when @David Lang mentioned it, but since you did as well now, could you clarify how it is important to the translation? I think I am confused for a few reasons:
First, the Greek is not a translation.
Second, they are not "original" to the Greek text.
Third, there are a few verses where scholars squabble about where the paragraph break originally had been. Adding this pillow (which again, was not original to the Greek) is essentially inserting a transnational decision into the text.

Thanks for any thoughts you have,
Kristin

[David Lang]

Kristin, with respect to the paragraph breaks in the Greek text, you're absolutely right that they are not original to the text, but then, neither is all the punctuation, capitalization, or even spaces between words. All of those things are editorial decisions by the producers of modern Greek editions. For the “original” Greek text, Accordance offers transcriptions of specific manuscripts, as well as photographs of some manuscripts.

 

Copyright holders tend to want all the information in their texts to be represented, including the paragraph breaks. That's why we have always displayed the paragraph markers when the text is viewed as separate verses. By the way, this is not without precedent in the print world. I once had a print copy of the NASB which displayed each verse on a separate line, with pilcrows to mark the paragraph breaks. That said, I see no reason why we couldn't add a display option to hide the pilcrows, both in the display of the text and in the Copy as Citation options.

 

Accordance is unusual in the amount of control our users have over the display of Bible texts and translations. Most Bible programs have offered some ability to tweak the look of the text, but Accordance offers far more flexibility than anyone else. That's largely due to the feedback of users like yourself.

 

Until we can add that display option, if you need to copy and paste text with a separate verse on each line, but need to remove the pilcrows, your best option is to use your word processor’s search and replace feature.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited May 14, 2023 by David Lang

[Solly]

Here is a sample of the AV Bibles I used in the 1960's and early 1970's. First the specific Bible info and then the first page of Genesis.

 

—Joseph

 

 

[Kristin]

Hi @David Lang,

Thank you for the detailed response, and yes, that helps a lot. I appreciate it. Also, on somewhat of a side note, when I had first needed to copy the text I actually did what you suggested with replacement. I just tried searching for the pilcrow telling it to replace it with nothing, and it worked beautifully. I had half expected it to delete the symbol but not the extra break, but it worked fine.

The issue had been that I was putting it in Numbers and doing so I needed the reference and text in two different cells, but the pilcrow was copying as its own line.

Here is an example in case that wasn't clear. The example is for column A - B - C

Reference  - ¶ - Verse

After deleting the pilcrow:

Reference - Verse

So I will remember how to replace it in the future if I need it.

 

Thank you again,

Kristin

Thank you for the screenshot, @Solly! After I saw your screenshot, I realized that is true, I have seen that symbol in old books before, but I had never connected the dots what it was and just saw it as a part of the curly font. Perhaps that is too honest, but it is true.

[Joe Weaks]

10 hours ago, Kristin said:

 

Hi @Joe Weaks,

…could you clarify how it is important to the translation?

 

Hi, @Kristin,

I really don't have much to add from my previous soap box about it.  
As David said, for the modern Greek text, paragraph breaks are editorial decision just like spaces and punctuation. Those decision dictate how we understand the flow and meaning of the text.
This is equally so in every modern translation. Those paragraph breaks are a part of the translation decision, just like punctuation, along with actual words.

[Kristin]

Hi @Joe Weaks,

Thanks for the response, and yes, what David had written above had answered my fundamental question. I think deep down I don't really trust the punctuation, pilcrow or otherwise, but from what David wrote above, I can see how it would be valid to just count it with the rest of punctuation. (Though I would still turn back a paper if a student handed me something with them showing). 

Take care,
Kristin

[Steven S]

9 hours ago, David Lang said:

That said, I see no reason why we couldn't add a display option to hide the pilcrows

 

At which point, let the joy of defining a requirements specification begin.... Should such an option also hide the paragraph markers samekh and pe in a Hebrew text? (Just having a little fun to demonstrate how a seemingly minor feature request can generate all sorts of questions for the dev team. )

[Solly]

43 minutes ago, Steven S said:

 

At which point, let the joy of defining a requirements specification begin.... Should such an option also hide the paragraph markers samekh and pe in a Hebrew text? (Just having a little fun to demonstrate how a seemingly minor feature request can generate all sorts of questions for the dev team. )

 

Oh the joy of side effect and unintended consequences! 

 

—Joseph