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"speech" function and the name of the LORD


Kristin

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CAUTION - I am discussing the name of God, so if this is offensive to you please do not read this post. Thank you.

 

In school I was taught that יְהוָֹה is pronounced "yah-way". (I mean as far as how people say it phonetically, I am aware it is spelled "Yahweh"). Like a lot of people, I learned this pronunciation prior to really grasping the vowels. I also know this is a "standard" pronunciation given how it is spoken in debates and such.

 

With that as a preface I was speaking today with a non-religious Israeli who said it was pronounced "yeh-ho-vah." At least part of what he said makes sense given that the ו makes a "v" sound in modern Hebrew, while it made a "w" sound in ancient Hebrew.

 

What caught my attention, however, is that he is using three syllables, not two, as everyone uses. I then started thinking, how are we even getting "yah-way" from the vowels given? Something like "yeh-wah" makes more sense, with both vowels making an "eh" sound.

 

Concerned about the number of syllables, I used the "Speech" function on Accordance, and it said "yeh-ho". Yeh-ho?

 

I was surprised at this "Speech" option since it seems like it needs to end in an "ah" sound because of the ה.

 

So now I have 4 options.

1 - yah-way

2 - yeh-ho-vah

3 - yeh-wah

4 - yeh-ho

 

Does anyone have thoughts?

 

Thank you,

Kristin

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The speech function is based on the built-in computer voices and should not be used as a guide for pronouncing Biblical languages.

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Hi @JonathanHuber,

Ya, I agree that the computer is not the same as a person, but normally speech uses letters the same way, and I was surprised it got a "ho" sound out of ה. In any case, would you agree with me that it is two syllables and "yeh-wah" is the most accurate? If so, why are we all always taught that the last syllable makes a "way" sound instead of "wah." The vowel ֶ  is "ah" not "A."

 

Kristin

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Listen to a couple of different voices pronouncing the name. Some of them are bizarre. Regarding the true pronunciation, yes that's what the vowels look like in the HMT, but I'm no expert on this and defer to others.

 

"The exact pronunciation is uncertain since the vowels were forgotten in ancient times; hence scholars often refer to the name only by its consonants YHVH or, more precisely, YHWH. It was probably pronounced Yahweh."

Adele Berlin and Marc Zvi Brettler, eds. The Jewish Study Bible: Second Edition. Accordance electronic ed. (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2014), 103.

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The ancient pronunciation of the divine name has been lost; we can only speculate (hence "Yah-way").

 

Within the Masoretic tradition, there are three primary ways that the divine name is vocalized: 

 

יְהוָה, vocalized with the vowels of the Aramaic word שְׁמָא “the Name” (pron. Shema)
יְהֹוָה, vocalized with the vowels of the Hebrew word אֲדֹנָי “Lord” (pron. Adonai)
יְהֹוִה, vocalized with the vowels of the Hebrew word אֱלֹהִים “God” (pron. Eloheem)
 

The pronunciation "Jehovah" is a feature of renaissance scholarship as the Christian West returned to study Hebrew. It is a complete mistake -- taking the middle option above as a real name and pronouncing it (in German) with the ancient consonants and the later Masoretic vowels reflecting the tradition of *not* pronouncing the divine name, thus "JeHoVaH". It is not a real Hebrew word.

Edited by Robert Holmstedt
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This entry in the eerdmans dictionary repeats what i have heard before about where the three syllables came from and ties in with what the person you were talking to said. 

 

JEHOVAH (Heb. yĕhōwāh)

A name of God, devised ca. the 16th century C.E. by artificially combining the consonants of the name Yahweh (YHWH; held by the Jews to be unutterable) and the vowels of the substitute name Adonai (“the Lord”).

See YAHWEH.

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Near as I can figure out, the modern Hebrew voice “Carmit” does not pay attention to the vowel points at all. It appears to be reading the consonants and taking its best guess as to the vowels, which seems reasonable for modern Hebrew, but is, of course, inadequate for biblical Hebrew. The pronunciation "Yeho" is a reasonable guess for that string of consonants (Y and H as consonants, W as a stand in for the O-vowel, and ending silent H), but is of course completely wrong.

 

If you go to the Speech tab of the preferences, you can choose one of the legacy voices, which go back before OS X’s natural language voice-to-speech. The voices sound terrible, but they will pronounce the vowels accurately…with one major exception. When they read the tetragrammaton (YHWH), they will pronounce “adonai” so as not to pronounce the divine name. (See Dr. Holmstedt’s middle option above)

 

When we first developed Accordance’s text-to-speech feature way back in version 3, I think, we actually re-mapped the Hebrew text to the text-to-speech phonemes, and we programmed the adonai pronunciation of the tetragrammaton. I always thought that was a nice touch. Unfortunately, that work didn’t translate to the newer voices.

 

The best way to hear Hebrew in Accordance is to use the Hebrew Old Testament Audio modules. These are actual Hebrew speakers reading the text, but again, they won’t tell you how to pronounce the divine name. They too will read “adonai.”

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Hi @David Lang,

Thank you for the explanation. I have the Hebrew OT Audio from Accordance and really like it. :) As you mentioned, however, it, like every practicing Jew, says something other than God's name when they see it. While I can understand people not saying it if it bothers there conscience, I personally do say it because of the repeated OT commands to say it.

After that conversation with that non-religious Jew, however, I became deeply concerned that I am mispronouncing it, as ה does not make an "A" sound, so yah-WAY seems really off.

I thus thought maybe the speech function could help since I felt sure the computer is not religious, but I see it has its own issues.

I think yah-weh is probably correct, in light of the prior posts, and what the Jewish Study Bible said, but perhaps that is also off since the original vowels were lost. So I suppose I will continue saying what I always do, I guess.

Kristin

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Yah-way (or perhaps more accurately, Yah-weh) reflects this reconstruction in Hebrew: יַהְוֶה. The reconstruction assumes a Hiphil (causative) prefixed (imperfect) verb form of the root הוה which is taken to be a by-form of היה. An analogous attested form is יַרְבֶּה (Exod 30:15).

 

So the name in this reconstruction is thought to have meant something like "causes to be" and is the middle element of a longer name-phrase: ** El Yahweh Ha-arets "God who causes the earth to be" (see Frank Moore Cross)

** I mis-remembered ancient epithets. Cross proposes "El who creates the Hosts," i.e., something like אל יהוה צבאות.**

Edited by Robert Holmstedt
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RE: Frank Moore Cross

What I'm about ask is somewhat irrelevant to the original question. The pronunciation of YHWH in public discourse came to my attention half a century ago listening to a lecture series by Ralph H. Alexander on biblical covenants. Yesterday reading this thread I began to speculate on the modern academic history of the that pronunciation. Ralph H. Alexander was a student of Waltke who was a student of F.M. Cross and often cited W. F. Albright[1]. I suspect that the German OT scholars had their own way of vocalizing YHWH. So where did this fad being? Every time it was used in lectures I heard in the '70s I would stop thinking about the topic of the lecture and wonder why this had become acceptable practice instead of using indirection: Ha-Shem. It was a huge distraction. 

 

This practice was fairly ubiquitous among the faculty. I had one professor who didn't pronounce the name. He would lecture directly from BHS and use HaShem or Adonai for the name. Fast forward half a century Peter J. Williams has publicly criticized the popular pronunciation of the name. 

 

[1] I listened to many hours of mid-'70s cassette tapes from the front row in  Waltke's course on Critical Problems in the Hebrew OT and recall hearing the laughter of students when he opened a sentence with W. F. Albright. 

 

 

Edited by c. stirling bartholomew
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I am probably looking in the wrong place. Most likely the popular vocalization of YHWH is an anglicized pronunciation of a 19th century German word in use for eons before it became popular in America. I had no taste for JEPD studies. Considered it a complete waste of time. 

Edited by c. stirling bartholomew
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Hi @c. stirling bartholomew,

If I am understanding correctly, you are not wondering why professors say "YHWH" as opposed to "Ha-Shem," but rather wondering why it is pronounced "yah-way" as opposed to something else?

 

I don't think "yah-way" is not that far off, if "yah-weh" is the most likely guess (though we don't really know for sure). The modern version is really just mispronouncing the last letter slightly.

 

If I am mistaken, and your original concern is why professors are saying it at all, I think it is because there is not a biblical reason why not to, and the professors doing it are likely not Jewish and thus not following Rabbinic tradition.

 

Kristin

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17 hours ago, Kristin said:

Hi @c. stirling bartholomew,

If I am understanding correctly, you are not wondering why professors say "YHWH" as opposed to "Ha-Shem," but rather wondering why it is pronounced "yah-way" as opposed to something else?

 

I don't think "yah-way" is not that far off, if "yah-weh" is the most likely guess (though we don't really know for sure). The modern version is really just mispronouncing the last letter slightly.

 

If I am mistaken, and your original concern is why professors are saying it at all, I think it is because there is not a biblical reason why not to, and the professors doing it are likely not Jewish and thus not following Rabbinic tradition.

 

Kristin

 

Kristin,

 You are right on both counts. There is a third question floating in the background. When and where did this all get started. The Germans in the 19th century? Or did someone else start it and the Germans picked up on it?  W. F. Albright published a famous work[1] in 1968.  F. M. Cross, John Day, J. J. Collins, A. Y. Collins ... B. Waltke[2] did a series of lectures "Creation and Chaos" fall quarter 1974 which was still reverberating winter quarter of '75. That was my introduction what I though of as a stream of tradition which perhaps came from Hermann Gunkel. It wasn't the divine name that fascinated me. It was the history of the study of the combat myth and YHWH. All of this way off topic on this forum but tangentially related to your question. 

 

[1] Yahweh and the gods of Canaan: a historical analysis of two contrasting faiths. by William Foxwell Albright

 

[2] Waltke cites a thesis; COSMOGONIC COMBAT MYTH , MARY K. WAKEMAN STANFORD UNIVERSITY IN 1895, which I read eons ago. 

 

POSTSCRIPT: John Day,  Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan, has an extensive list of sources. 

 

Edited by c. stirling bartholomew
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  • 1 month later...

With regards to the claims that Yahweh is a pagan deity, see the following video:

https://www.hebrewgospels.com/video-14-yhwh

 

If you are interested in an in-depth grammatical explanation of the exact pronunciation of the Name Yahweh, I would recommend the following videos:

 

https://www.hebrewgospels.com/video-12-yhwh

https://www.hebrewgospels.com/video-13-yhwh
 

Yahweh is certainly more correct than Yahway

 

The Waw / Vav issue is covered by Justin in video 15:

https://www.hebrewgospels.com/video-15-yhwh

 

For more information about the Pronunciation Yehovah, see

https://www.hebrewgospels.com/video6-yhwh

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  • 10 months later...

To respond to a very stale thread, I will

On 4/5/2022 at 10:04 PM, Accordance Enthusiast said:

With regards to the claims that Yahweh is a pagan deity, see the following video:

https://www.hebrewgospels.com/video-14-yhwh

 

If you are interested in an in-depth grammatical explanation of the exact pronunciation of the Name Yahweh, I would recommend the following videos:

 

https://www.hebrewgospels.com/video-12-yhwh

https://www.hebrewgospels.com/video-13-yhwh
 

Yahweh is certainly more correct than Yahway

 

The Waw / Vav issue is covered by Justin in video 15:

https://www.hebrewgospels.com/video-15-yhwh

 

For more information about the Pronunciation Yehovah, see

https://www.hebrewgospels.com/video6-yhwh

 

On 2/16/2022 at 6:38 PM, Kristin said:

CAUTION - I am discussing the name of God, so if this is offensive to you please do not read this post. Thank you.

 

In school I was taught that יְהוָֹה is pronounced "yah-way". (I mean as far as how people say it phonetically, I am aware it is spelled "Yahweh"). Like a lot of people, I learned this pronunciation prior to really grasping the vowels. I also know this is a "standard" pronunciation given how it is spoken in debates and such.

 

With that as a preface I was speaking today with a non-religious Israeli who said it was pronounced "yeh-ho-vah." At least part of what he said makes sense given that the ו makes a "v" sound in modern Hebrew, while it made a "w" sound in ancient Hebrew.

 

What caught my attention, however, is that he is using three syllables, not two, as everyone uses. I then started thinking, how are we even getting "yah-way" from the vowels given? Something like "yeh-wah" makes more sense, with both vowels making an "eh" sound.

 

Concerned about the number of syllables, I used the "Speech" function on Accordance, and it said "yeh-ho". Yeh-ho?

 

I was surprised at this "Speech" option since it seems like it needs to end in an "ah" sound because of the ה.

 

So now I have 4 options.

1 - yah-way

2 - yeh-ho-vah

3 - yeh-wah

4 - yeh-ho

 

Does anyone have thoughts?

 

Thank you,

Kristin

To respond to a very stale post, there is a 5th option: If one is uncertain about the pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton, just read it as yod he vav he. I think that may avoid some offense to Jewish persons, though they won't be used to it.  When you write it in English, just put YHWH. Some how I don't like the sound of wow for vav, though I write it as W.

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42 minutes ago, Enoch said:

To respond to a very stale post, there is a 5th option: If one is uncertain about the pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton, just read it as yod he vav he. I think that may avoid some offense to Jewish persons, though they won't be used to it.  When you write it in English, just put YHWH. Some how I don't like the sound of wow for vav, though I write it as W.


Hi @Enoch,

Ya, the post was a while ago, but that is ok. :)

I can understand your logic to just say the letters, but I personally always actually say it, since, without getting into religion too much, it is my personal understanding that on a few occasions the OT actually commands people to say it. That said, when I am speaking to people for the first time I do actively ask them if they mind if I say the name of God, and I don't say it until they say they don't mind. I have also had a few Jewish students and for them I don't even ask and just say "God" or "Adonai."

Concerning writing it, I always write YHWH, primarily since I got into the habit doing so in grad school, but I also like the look of it.

Kristin

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Quite a sensitive topic.

I have a very strong view (Similar to Kristin?) based on new recent scholarship and intricate searches originally in Bible Works and now in Accordance.

My conclusion is  reinforced by asking how does HIS name seem to flow smoothly with a simple reading of scripture in the language that it is written in. 

But in the end I respect anyone who is genuinely thirsty for knowledge and willing to seek common ground.

 

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We were taught in my Hebrew classes in seminary just to say “Adonai” (as most Jews do). I’ve stuck with it so I haven’t had to figure it out. 🙂 

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In my non-academic, personal opinion, not saying God's name (in some way, however one chooses to vocalize it) reflects a distancing of the devotee from the divine being, which runs counter to the vast majority of texts in the Bible. When I read to my children, I avoid "the LORD" and use Yahweh, in order to give them a sense that the deity I am encouraging them to view as creator and to worship has a personal identity. If the Garden of Eden reflects what the creator desired between him and his human creations, then not using his name (in some way) is just like the Hebrews walking away from Mt. Sinai after hearing the 10 commandments and telling Moses that he can deal with God for them. 

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I appreciate your point about it creating distance and depersonalizing, @Robert Holmstedt. I agree completely. Along with my prior reason that I believe we are commanded to say it, another reason is that most publish Bibles call everyone under the sun some form of "lord / Lord / LORD" and I know from experience that most people think the all capped version is just to show respect, but the same word as the other two spellings (understandably). This is one of the many reasons why I teach people who don't know Hebrew what the all capped version means whenever I am able to do so.

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1 hour ago, Robert Holmstedt said:

In my non-academic, personal opinion, not saying God's name (in some way, however one chooses to vocalize it) reflects a distancing of the devotee from the divine being, which runs counter to the vast majority of texts in the Bible. When I read to my children, I avoid "the LORD" and use Yahweh, in order to give them a sense that the deity I am encouraging them to view as creator and to worship has a personal identity. If the Garden of Eden reflects what the creator desired between him and his human creations, then not using his name (in some way) is just like the Hebrews walking away from Mt. Sinai after hearing the 10 commandments and telling Moses that he can deal with God for them. 

 

I agree, Robert, and we taught our children the same thing (and read to them the same way). One of my kids took it so much to heart that he used White Out to blot out all the offending capital letters and wrote Yahweh in by hand. You know how many times the name occurs so you can just imagine how many bottles he used, how much time it took him, and how much the pages of his Bible fanned out from the added thickness. It is one of my favorite memories.

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1 hour ago, Michel Gilbert said:

I agree, Robert, and we taught our children the same thing (and read to them the same way). One of my kids took it so much to heart that he used White Out to blot out all the offending capital letters and wrote Yahweh in by hand. You know how many times the name occurs so you can just imagine how many bottles he used, how much time it took him, and how much the pages of his Bible fanned out from the added thickness. It is one of my favorite memories.

 

I wonder if he could do this with an Accordance highlighting style now.

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2 minutes ago, Nathan Parker said:

I wonder if he could do this with an Accordance highlighting style now.

 

Hi @Nathan Parker, the answer is a resounding NO. I did that and the Highlight file got too large and became corrupted. So I did it again with a new Highlight file, and you guessed it, it became corrupted. :( I really, really, really, hope that the stability issues with the Highlights and Notes gets resolved.

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1 hour ago, Michel Gilbert said:

 

I agree, Robert, and we taught our children the same thing (and read to them the same way). One of my kids took it so much to heart that he used White Out to blot out all the offending capital letters and wrote Yahweh in by hand. You know how many times the name occurs so you can just imagine how many bottles he used, how much time it took him, and how much the pages of his Bible fanned out from the added thickness. It is one of my favorite memories.

 

It is nice that LSB now has Yahweh - it really is somewhat eye opening

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Its why i still hold onto my hard copy of the 1966 edition of the Jerusalem bible which i had rebound. 

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