Why does BHS-T read וְהִנֵּהוֵּהוּ in Jer 18:3?

[TYA]

My BHS-T is Version 2.3, and it reads וְהִנֵּהוֵּהוּ in Jer 18:3.  The Leningrad image shows והנהו, and so reads HMT-W4 and MT-ETCBC.  Is this a digital error in the BHS-T?

[Mark Allison]

I would say that looks like an error. I think it should be וְהִנֵּהוּ. I'll get out an update asap.

[Andrew Patterson]

I have a hard copy of the BHS Reader's Edition. It reads "והנהו" with no diacritical marks

[Mark Allison]

1 hour ago, Andrew Patterson said:

I have a hard copy of the BHS Reader's Edition. It reads "והנהו" with no diacritical marks

 

Yeah, that's what I see too. The BHS in the MT-ETCBC also lacks vowel pointing (though our HMT-W4 includes the vowel pointing).
 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Mark Allison

[Jordan S]

BHS-T should follow the print edition of BHS and be updated to read וְהִנֵּהוּ.

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A few verses later you will see in Jeremiah 18:16 a clearer example of how different texts in Accordance handle Ketib/Qere:

1. BHS-T reflects the print שְׁרִוקֹ֣ת.

2. HMT-W4 uses the BHS vocalization in brackets [שְׁרִיק֣וֹת] and supplies a vocalization for the Ketib שְׁרוּקַת

3. MT-ETCBC does not supply a vocalization for the Ketib, but instead uses that vocalization for the Qere [שְׁרִיקֹ֣ת].

4. Anderson-Forbes appears to behave the same way as the HMT-W4, but does not always agree with Westminster's pointing of the Ketib.

 

 

 

[Andrew Patterson]

So the vowel pointing essentially just pulls from the brackets of the other texts? Just learning here!

[Fabian]

May you consider the Leningrad Codex Images in Accordance.

[Jordan S]

3 hours ago, Andrew Patterson said:

So the vowel pointing essentially just pulls from the brackets of the other texts? Just learning here!

Could you clarify your question, Andrew?

[Peter Bekins]

On 1/26/2022 at 5:05 AM, Andrew Patterson said:

So the vowel pointing essentially just pulls from the brackets of the other texts? Just learning here!

 

If I understand your question correctly, the vowel pointing on the ketiv was reconstructed by the Westminster Hebrew Institute who prepared the tagged text that underlies HMT-W4. In the case where the ketiv-qere difference is related to orthography, then yes the pointing on the ketiv will basically match the qere. Where there is an actual grammatical or lexical difference, however, it will not. For instance, look down further to Jer 18:10: הָרָעָה [הָ][רַע֙]. Here the ketiv was a feminine form, the qere a masculine. 

 

Bottom line, that pointing on the ketiv is a modern reconstruction that presumably helps someone study something, but I have always found it to be confusing for beginning students who need to understand how to analyze ketiv-qere pairs as they occur in the physical texts.

 

Pete

 

 

[Andrew Patterson]

@Peter Bekins Thanks! I'm just teaching myself Hebrew, and I'm not familiar with ketiv-qere pairs...which seems to be the principal issue here. I think I understand now (sort of!). 

 

It's amazing the things you miss in self-study 😅

[Benjamin Denckla]

There's a lot going on here with this 4th word of Jer. 18:3. As @Jordan S points out above, part of what's confusing is the different ways that different editions present qere and ketiv. Let's just focus on what this should look like in BHS-T. To answer that question, let's see what this looks like in the paper BHS:

 

So, BHS-T should have וְהִנֵּה֛וּ, which is to say, BHS-T should have exactly what the paper BHS has, minus the masorah circle that appears on paper, because it is not BHS-T's policy to replicate the masorah circles of the paper edition. Note that my suggestion agrees with what @Mark Allison and @Jordan S suggested for BHS-T, except they left off the accent, tevir. Presumably they left it off unintentionally.

 

So that is how the BHS-T should represent the following:

• the letters of the ketiv
• the points of the qere (by "points" I mean vowel marks and accents.)

But how should BHS-T represent the rest of what we might need, namely, the following:

• the letters of the qere
• how the points map to the letters of the qere

The answer is, BHS-T should not represent these at all! This is according to its policy of not including the masorah parva (Mp) notes of the paper BHS.

 

• The paper BHS represents the letters of the qere using Mp notes, as the LC manuscript itself does.
• The paper BHS does not represent how the qere points map to the letters of the qere, so in this sense, BHS-T is not missing anything relative to the paper edition.

For the curious, the pointed qere is as follows: וְהִנֵּה־ה֛וּא.

As to how on earth BHS-T ended up with וְהִנֵּה֛וֵּהוּ, I have no idea. It looks like what should be there, but with tsere, he, and shuruq added to the end. It sort of looks like the qere letters, but not really.

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

@Andrew Patterson I have a friend who produced some Hebrew videos if you ever want to watch them. I can DM you his website.

[Andrew Patterson]

17 hours ago, Nathan Parker said:

@Andrew Patterson I have a friend who produced some Hebrew videos if you ever want to watch them. I can DM you his website.

I would appreciate that a lot! Thank you!

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Done!