Ugarit Texts

[robrecht]

Update, David or Nathan??

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

Last time I heard, David is still researching it.

[robrecht]

Why does this need to be researched? Fabian started this thread over two and a half years ago. Accordance is still advertising and selling this content, receiving money based on a promise that this content is in the process of becoming available. Is it ethical for Accordance to receive money based on such murky promises that Accordance personnel still need to research?

[KevinPurcell]

I didn’t buy this but if I had I’d be asking for a refund. It’s not coming since they can’t even get syncing and the web version done. I have no hope they’ll ever come nor will this module. 

[robrecht]

Update??

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

David is away at the moment, but when he gets back, I'll see if he's heard anything.

[robrecht]

We're still waiting on an update to this thread since it was started nearly 3 years ago.

 

I got an email today regarding  a sale item for $100 (UGAR-T + Ugaritic Data Bank), which seems to have a smaller number of texts included than what I originally purchased (UGAR-T with UGAR-E & UDB updates) but because I own some items (and more), I would be charged $76.11.

 

So what is included in the Ugaritic Data Bank that I do not already own with the updated version of UGAR-T/UGAR-E/UDB?

 

The UGAR-T with UGAR-E and UDB updates currently includes:

1. Baal Myth (UDB/KTU 1.1-1.6)
2. Baal Myth associated fragments (UDB/KTU 1.7-1.13)
3. Keret Epic (UDB/KTU 1.14-1.16)
4. Aqhat/Danel Epic (UDB 1.17-1.19)
5. RPUM-texts (UDB 1.20-1.22)
6. Birth of Shahar and Shalim (UDB 1.23)
7. The Wedding between the moon god and Nikkal (UDB 1.24)
8. Some fragments
9. A few sacrifice lists
10. A ritual calendar
11. A god list

The UGAR-T that is currently for sale only includes:

1. Baal Myth (UDB/KTU 1.1-1.6)
2. Baal Myth associated fragments (UDB/KTU 1.7-1.13)
3. Keret Epic (UDB/KTU 1.14-1.16)
4. Aqhat/Danel Epic (UDB 1.17-1.19)
5. RPUM-texts (UDB 1.20-1.22)

Is the Ugaritic Data Bank perhaps all of the remaining untagged texts? 

 

And for those of us who have already purchased the UGAR-T, are these promises still being honored?

Quote

 

The transliterated text from the Cunchillos Ugaritic database is under preparation with full morphological tagging. An English translation is included together with introductory Notes. A detailed apparatus is also planned.

 

The initial release in January 2016 is a prototype module consisting only of the Ba’lu Myth. Further free updates will add more texts until the database is completed over a few years.

 

 

 

 

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

I still haven't heard an update on this. I would recommend emailing Customer Service (orders, not Tech Support) and seeing if you can get some form of update (or at least someone may be able to brief me on something so I can post an update). I've been pushing for an update from my end, but maybe one of us can get an update faster if Customer Service hears from some of you on this.

[robrecht]

Called Sales, spoke to Steve. He's going to email his manager (and cc me), who is one of the co-owners of Accordance. As soon as I hear something back, I will update this thread.

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

22 hours ago, robrecht said:

Called Sales, spoke to Steve. He's going to email his manager (and cc me), who is one of the co-owners of Accordance. As soon as I hear something back, I will update this thread.

 

Fantastic. Thanks!

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

I spoke with one of our Module Developers today concerning this. We're going to check our Module Development Server (as well as discuss this further at our next meeting) to see if this was an already completed project we acquired from a scholar, or if it was a project that we were hiring a scholar to develop as an ongoing project (possibly before the current management). 

 

If it was an already completed project that we acquired from a scholar that only requires bringing in the files into Accordance format, we can locate the files (whether we have them already or still need to acquire them) then queue these up for development, then we can get these released to customers.

 

If it was a project that we were hiring a scholar to develop as an ongoing project, there would unfortunately be a major delay in the project, as the scholar would need to continue taking up work on the project before the files would be given to us, and we wouldn't have any form of concrete ETA on that if that were the case.

 

So hopefully it is #1 and not #2, and sorry that I don't have all the answers yet, but at least I wanted to update here and let you know that we are discussing this internally and working to get some form of answer to this.

[robrecht]

Thanks, Nathan. I appreciate the follow-up. 

 

But someone at Accordance should already know what's going on with the new Ugaritic Data Bank that is now being offered for sale. I'm presuming that Accordance does not now put out new items for without knowing what they are.

 

Is the Ugaritic Data Bank perhaps all of the remaining untagged texts? If so, I don't think owners of the updated version of UGAR-T/UGAR-E/UDB, who were promised all of these tagged texts should be expected to now pay for untagged texts. If that's not clear, please my first post from November 19th above for more details.

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

3 hours ago, robrecht said:

But someone at Accordance should already know what's going on with the new Ugaritic Data Bank that is now being offered for sale. I'm presuming that Accordance does not now put out new items for without knowing what they are.

 

Is the Ugaritic Data Bank perhaps all of the remaining untagged texts? If so, I don't think owners of the updated version of UGAR-T/UGAR-E/UDB, who were promised all of these tagged texts should be expected to now pay for untagged texts. If that's not clear, please my first post from November 19th above for more details.

 

Good followup questions, and I will find out and get an answer to this for you.

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

On 12/20/2024 at 4:13 PM, robrecht said:

Is the Ugaritic Data Bank perhaps all of the remaining untagged texts? If so, I don't think owners of the updated version of UGAR-T/UGAR-E/UDB, who were promised all of these tagged texts should be expected to now pay for untagged texts.

 

@robrecht I can't see your purchase history, but can you post or DM me what exact Ugaritic items you purchased, that'll be a huge help.

 

[robrecht]

Hi, Nathan. Sent it to you by email.

[A.D. Riddle]

Rob,

 

The Ugaritic Data Bank has been around since the 1990s, distributed as CDs and pdfs and maybe even older software. I think the main force behind this was Jesús-Luis Cunchillos. It is/was the first part of a larger project called Banco de Datos Filológicos Semíticos Noroccidentales, which also includes Phoenician and Punic, and maybe other stuff. I have lost track of where things are. The main website appears to be down since 2006, which is the year Cunchillos passed away.

 

The pdfs I have are from 2003. There are two documents. One pdf was a Concordance of all Ugaritic words, and this was tied to the other pdf which was the text of all Ugaritic documents up to that point. "The Texts" contained line-by-line comparisons of different editions where they differed in the readings. This latter pdf named "Ugaritic Data Bank: The Texts" seems to be the exact content of the Accordance module "Ugaritic Data Bank," including even the Introduction. You can find this same content in Logos, Gorgias Press with Concordance, the pdfs I have with Concordance, and so forth.

 

The corpus of Ugaritic texts continues to grow (e.g. the 3rd edition of KTU/CAT published in 2013), and I do not know if anyone is updating the original Ugartic Data Bank.

 

That covers the Accordance module Ugaritic Data Bank.

 

The other Ugaritic modules in Accordance (UGAR-T, UGAR-E, and UGAR Notes) are the work of Peter Christensen and are separate from the Ugartic Data Bank, though they can certainly be used together. It appears Peter has continued to work away at the project, though I believe he had to take time away to complete academic work.

 

It seems amazing that Nathan cannot immediately find more solid answers on the state of this project.

 

A.D.

 

Edited December 23, 2024 by A.D. Riddle

[A.D. Riddle]

To summarize:

I do not think anything has changed for the module Ugaritic Data Bank since 2003 (unless they are fixing typos).

It looks like the latest updates to Peter's modules are 5.0, 5.0, and for the Notes 1.1.

 

It seems like with what you purchased already, you should have access to all updates. I see no reason why you should buy anything further.

 

Additional note: the Ugaritic Data Bank is just the texts, no tagging. You need Peter's modules for tagging.

 

A.D.

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

@robrecht Finally got a little more of an answer on this. 

 

@A.D. Riddle is correct in what he is saying, and the Data Bank and the Tagged are separate. 

 

If someone who purchased Tagged really wants the Data Bank as a companion, they can contact Customer Service, and we can offer them a good discount on it, but in your case, you probably don't need it. 

 

We're having issues locating Peter Christensen's contact info here. We can continue to hunt it down, or if someone happens to have it, that would be fantastic. We can find out where Peter is at on the remaining module file updates and see if we can bring additional content in. 

[A. Smith]

1 hour ago, A.D. Riddle said:

It seems amazing that Nathan cannot immediately find more solid answers on the state of this project.

 

This is quite typical these days. I've also addressed the unhelpful nature of comments like those he's made here about not knowing and not getting information from people who should know. It is . . . strange . . . to me that a public representative of the company is so regularly in the dark about so many things. 

[A. Smith]

[A.D. Riddle]

1 hour ago, Dr. Nathan Parker said:

We're having issues locating Peter Christensen's contact info here.

Seems like Accordance needs a better system for maintaining contact with people with whom they work???

I just sent a private message.

 

A.D.

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

17 minutes ago, A.D. Riddle said:

Seems like Accordance needs a better system for maintaining contact with people with whom they work???

I just sent a private message.

 

We have a system moving forward, but there's a couple of people from older projects that were overlooked. 

[robrecht]

Thanks, A.D. So, if I understand you correctly, there are probably no untagged texts in the Ugaritic Data Bank that are not supposed to be eventually tagged in the UGAR-T, UGAR-E, UDB, and any further updates that have been promised on the Accordance sales page. That is what I assumed to be the case. Nonetheless, there may be additional Ugaritic texts that are not currently planned for either module, eg, the Ugaritic letters you mentioned in the second post of this thread. Very helpful, thanks!

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

@robrecht I have Peter's durect contact info now. I have personally reached out for him asking for an update on the project and to give me a briefing on the latest status report.

 

I also received an email from a former Accordance module developer providing the last status update he had from Peter a while back.

 

Before I share any of Peter's correspondence publicly, I am showing it to him to see if that is the latest status or he he has additional information to share (plus I need to clear it with him before releasing his personal correspondence to the public). I have shared his correspondence internally with our current module development team and management so we all have a record of at least some form of status update on file.

 

From what I have seen, it does seem there are some additional source files from Peter we would be able to grab/queue for production to move this project forward, but I will know more for sure once I hear the official word from Peter. When I do, I will update here.

[A.D. Riddle]

5 hours ago, robrecht said:

Thanks, A.D. So, if I understand you correctly, there are probably no untagged texts in the Ugaritic Data Bank that are not supposed to be eventually tagged in the UGAR-T, UGAR-E, UDB, and any further updates that have been promised on the Accordance sales page. That is what I assumed to be the case. Nonetheless, there may be additional Ugaritic texts that are not currently planned for either module, eg, the Ugaritic letters you mentioned in the second post of this thread. Very helpful, thanks!

Rob,

 

I had to read that first sentence a few times to make sure I got it right. 😀 The Accordance page sure makes it sound like they plan to continue until everything in the Ugaritic Data Bank is eventually tagged (meaning it will get added to UGAR-T). Hopefully, we will also get the translation (UGAR-E), notes (UGAR Notes), and the webpage says there are plans for a detailed apparatus (there is something started at the very end of UGAR Notes but no content yet).

 

A.D.

Edited December 24, 2024 by A.D. Riddle