Ben Tovar Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 Regarding the Greek New Testament, is there a module or feature within Accordance that helps to identify the special usage a nominative, accusative, dative, or genitive case takes? For an idea of what I mean, I've included a chart which identifies various nuances within the Nominative case such as "subject", "predicate nominative", "simple apposition", etc. Similar to the ability to see parsing information of a Greek word, such as a noun in the nominative case, in the Instant Details pane, I'd like the ability to see which "nuance" that noun in the nominative case takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Meiklejohn Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 (edited) btovar071, 1. open interlinear 2. go to interlinear menu settings. 3. make sure you have 'part speech' and 'tag' selected. See Screenshots... Paul. Edited October 3, 2020 by Paul Meiklejohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Tovar Posted October 3, 2020 Author Share Posted October 3, 2020 (edited) btovar071, 1. open interlinear 2. go to interlinear menu settings. 3. make sure you have 'part speech' and 'tag' selected. See Screenshots... Paul. Hi Paul, Thanks for the quick response, however that's not what I was referring to. Hopefully the attached image comes through this time. Not only do I want to see the case of the Greek word, but I also want to know which nuance is that case "taking" (see attached for what I mean and the verbiage in the second-half of my original post). Is this possible, or is there a module that Accordance offers that provides this information? Edited October 3, 2020 by btovar071 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukfraser Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 (edited) Deleted, you found out to add screenshots. Edited October 3, 2020 by ukfraser 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Meiklejohn Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 (edited) Yes, I now see you are looking for something a bit deeper than the basic case. Sorry I can't be of more help, but I'll be surprised if Accordance don't have a module that meets your needs. Alternatively, someone might be able to direct you to an original language website that you can open in the Accordance web browser. I'd be interested in that too. Every blessing in your search. Edited October 3, 2020 by Paul Meiklejohn 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlm Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 (edited) Although there are lots of resources I'm unfamiliar with, is be surprised if anyone has systematically identified these distinctions for every word in the GNT. EGGNT does a lot of analysis, but it doesn't give this information for all words, or even for most words. Even if there were such a resource, there would be many debatable cases. For example, it's not rare for a genitive to make sense both as objective and as subjective. Which did the inspired author mean? The nuances are brought up in commentaries when they're relevant to exegesis. Grammars (esp. Wallace) also list many cases as examples: the Info Pane can tell you which grammars discuss the verse you're viewing. Edited October 3, 2020 by jlm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 (edited) Ok, there is some work I did on using the syntax module to find some of these cases in Greek. Many are not syntactic or morphological in nature and there is no semantic tagging module. And if there were there would be many arguable cases. Regardless if you want have a look at some stuff I tried it's on the exchange http://www.accordancefiles1.com/exchange/downloads/wallace_searches.zip These are based on Wallace's categories. The nominative and accusative are a bit easier to handle but the dative and genitive not so much. Note that these workspaces require the NA28 Greek NT and the Greek syntax module. Thx D Edited October 3, 2020 by דָנִיאֶל 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timplanche Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 I agree with Daniel simplest way is with the syntax module Definitions slightly defferent and sometimes a bit subjective - one perso's nominative pendant could be another's nonnative absolute - but it seems to correspond well to the samples in your sheet on use of cases see images here Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Ok, there is some work I did on using the syntax module to find some of these cases in Greek. Many are not syntactic or morphological in nature and there is no semantic tagging module. And if there were there would be many arguable cases. Regardless if you want have a look at some stuff I tried it's on the exchange http://www.accordancefiles1.com/exchange/downloads/wallace_searches.zip These are based on Wallace's categories. The nominative and accusative are a bit easier to handle but the dative and genitive not so much. Note that these workspaces require the NA28 Greek NT and the Greek syntax module. Thx D Daniel Did you talk about the semantic module which is still missing in Accordance? from http://timotheeminard.com/accordance-13-and-logos-8-which-software-for-biblical-exegesis/ Fabian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Tovar Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 Ok, there is some work I did on using the syntax module to find some of these cases in Greek. Many are not syntactic or morphological in nature and there is no semantic tagging module. And if there were there would be many arguable cases. Regardless if you want have a look at some stuff I tried it's on the exchange http://www.accordancefiles1.com/exchange/downloads/wallace_searches.zip These are based on Wallace's categories. The nominative and accusative are a bit easier to handle but the dative and genitive not so much. Note that these workspaces require the NA28 Greek NT and the Greek syntax module. Thx D Hi Daniel (did I get that right?), thank you for that! I also downloaded the additional content you listed on your GitHub. However, I'm having trouble with several of the workspaces I've tried and I think it's primarily because I don't have the Syntax Module (this one for $59), would that be correct? Is it worth purchasing (I'm a Seminary student and do exegetical work for sermons on occasion, currently)? I agree with Daniel simplest way is with the syntax module Definitions slightly defferent and sometimes a bit subjective - one perso's nominative pendant could be another's nonnative absolute - but it seems to correspond well to the samples in your sheet on use of cases see images here Tim Screenshot 2020-10-05 at 10.12.41.pngScreenshot 2020-10-05 at 10.07.48.png Hi Tim - as I mentioned above, I don't have that module. For the purposes of my Seminary course in Greek along with my exegetical prep-work for the occasional sermon (once/month), would it be worth it to purchase this now? Although there are lots of resources I'm unfamiliar with, is be surprised if anyone has systematically identified these distinctions for every word in the GNT. EGGNT does a lot of analysis, but it doesn't give this information for all words, or even for most words. Even if there were such a resource, there would be many debatable cases. For example, it's not rare for a genitive to make sense both as objective and as subjective. Which did the inspired author mean? The nuances are brought up in commentaries when they're relevant to exegesis. Grammars (esp. Wallace) also list many cases as examples: the Info Pane can tell you which grammars discuss the verse you're viewing. I agree, and have found that due to the different ways some examples could go, context has become a key criterion for determining which would be the best. Regarding your comment on Wallace's Grammar (this one), I'm debating which version to get get...the Accordance module, or hard-back...which do you suggest and why? I'd be interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Hi Daniel (did I get that right?), thank you for that! I also downloaded the additional content you listed on your GitHub. However, I'm having trouble with several of the workspaces I've tried and I think it's primarily because I don't have the Syntax Module (this one for $59), would that be correct? Is it worth purchasing (I'm a Seminary student and do exegetical work for sermons on occasion, currently)? Yes Daniel. Yes, much of my stuff in the exchange workspaces depends upon this syntax module. I worked with it a bit to find various constructions but as noted it's not going to find you constructions like "genitive of content" or such like directly. Some other items, such as subjects, speech, apposition are directly tagged though. But where they are not you can find constructions by use of an example. That can be helpful in looking at various uses of the same sort of construction. Accordance has a way to create a search from an example - select the example and Amplify to Syntax. You can then modify the search from there. There is good documentation of it in a PDF which has also been made into a module. You can look at the PDF about the syntax module here http://www.accordancefiles1.com/products/BriefUserGuideHebrewSyntaxDatabase_2016.pdf. The syntax db for Holmstedt Hebrew is the same syntax model as that used by the Greek. I did a few videos on You tube on searching for the same construction in Accordance using three different methods and compared the benefits and shortcomings in each one. The last of those used the syntax module. https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/26307-searching-in-accordance-a-more-fully-worked-example/?hl=%2Bcompound+%2Bsubject&do=findComment&comment=136527. Is it worth buying ? I use Acc for OL work - Greek predominantly, Hebrew to a great deal lesser extent. It's often said that that's what Acc is really good at - OL, texts, grammars, lexica, syntax modules. If that's where your interest lies then it's probably a good buy. As to Wallace, I have it in both Accordance and in hardcover. I use both. The Acc module easier to search of course. But sometimes to just sit and read a larger section at length I prefer a hardcopy. Thx D 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlm Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Regarding your comment on Wallace's Grammar (this one), I'm debating which version to get get...the Accordance module, or hard-back...which do you suggest and why? I'd be interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this, too. Because I want to take my books with me wherever I go, I prefer electronic versions. Accordance resources allow me to link to passages from my notes, besides the search capabilities that have already been mentioned. Personally, I don't mind reading long passages on screen, but many find books easier for this. Hard copy books have a high contrast ratio, high resolution, don't depend on batteries, and can be read centuries after their publishers went out of business. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgvh Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 (edited) I'll go with a specific example. Is Accordance able to identify all the indirect objects in the GNT using the syntax module? (I realize that there is some looseness to this whether a dative pro/noun is identified as an indirect object or a dative direct object or a dative of advantage...) I'm trying a construct search using the syntax elements: Predicate phrase with a dative complement That gives more false hits than actual hits. (E.g., datives in prepositional phrases) Is it possible to find all the indirect objects? (Again, I'm primarily an Accordance user, but Logos does have a syntax database that allows to search for indirect objects with just a couple clicks.) Edited October 8, 2020 by mgvh 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 (edited) Hi Mark, This is not that straightforward with the Greek syntax module in Accordance. I did try at one point. There are some posts on this regarding how to approach it for Hebrew in the forums. One way is to look for specific verbs known to take such objects and then add elements representing adjuncts or complements in the dative. Another way to have at the problem is to find an example and select a section of the construction and amplify to construct and modify that search to get things that are similar. See also: https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/6374-question-about-an-indirect-object-in-the-hebrew-syntax-database/?hl=%2Bindirect+%2Bobject+%2Bsyntax thx D Edited October 9, 2020 by דָנִיאֶל 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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