Give us Brill (please)

[Outis]

I have a number of essential books from Brill on my shelf. But, they are expensive and, of course, you can't search them and carry them around with you as you can with books offered on Accordance.  Especially, it would be good to have the NTTSD series available.

 

Just a request,

 

—Steve Bauer

[MattChristianOT]

It has been said many many times here, Brill is VERY difficult to work with and getting them to license at a good rate that turns profit is near impossible. Their target market is institutional holdings and so they are not focused on individuals like Accordance

[Outis]

Thanks for the context.

[Fabian]

It has been said many many times here, Brill is VERY difficult to work with and getting them to license at a good rate that turns profit is near impossible. Their target market is institutional holdings and so they are not focused on individuals like Accordance

But why the competitor has it?

 

As I mentioned also a few times. They want to sell. Isn't it. And in my opinion you argument is laking the case, OakTree is not an individual. It is not so, Brill has a lot of work with any of us. They only have to work with ONE who are a reseller for a lot of customers.

 

I guess it is more OakTree don't want, because they fear the amount of work, and then they sell not enough because it is very expensive. In my opinion OakTree is the break not Brill. 

 

Greetings

 

Fabian

Edited April 10, 2020 by Fabian

[mhanel]

Often times it's not that simple. My denomination's publishing house has gone on the record before to state that they only want to work with one online publishing medium (such as Accordance) and they chose what they felt was the bigger market, and so that meant not working with BibleWorks or Accordance. Their perspective is likely that such markets are not where they want to focus. They'd rather sell real books. They move begrudgingly into these other media (like Kindle now), but only begrudgingly and one step at a time. As a consumer, we value choice. As a business, they value maximizing profits. We may disagree with their evaluation, but the only way to change that is for lots of potential customers to email them (not companies like Accordance) and say, "Hey I'd love to buy your product, but this is where I want to buy it." Until then, I imagine not much will change quickly.

[MattChristianOT]

But why the competitor has it?

 

As I mentioned also a few times. They want to sell. Isn't it. And in my opinion you argument is laking the case, OakTree is not an individual. It is not so, Brill has a lot of work with any of us. They only have to work with ONE who are a reseller for a lot of customers.

 

I guess it is more OakTree don't want, because they fear the amount of work, and then they sell not enough because it is very expensive. In my opinion OakTree is the break not Brill. 

 

Greetings

 

Fabian

The competitor has it because some of their program is driven by sales to institutions. My school offers logos for free and I get a partial library that will in turn, drive sales as students add more modules. It is a totally different business model and cannot be compared to Accordance. Just because logos has something, does not mean that Accordance can and should get it. Accordance does WAY better with textual searches and original language emphasis. Logos is nothing more than a searchable library and they focus on books and monographs that seminaries and Bible colleges and students and lay people invest in. There is not a one to one correlation between Logos and Accordance at all.

 

Also, from a business model, if someone sells a license and gives over an electronic text, it takes time to convert and format that text, as well as market, support, and sell. In order to do that, Accordance needs to ensure that they have the cash flow, resources and can maintain a bottom line EBITA (General Cash flow after all expenses and payroll are put out). If it seems that only a handful of people are willing to go in on one resource, Accordance needs to see if over time, that resource and license cost is worth the expense. Yes lots on here ask for Brill things, but mind you, they are typically several, niche resources that are very expensive to produce and manage, and that is only IF they can get the license in the first place. I work in sales for a national company and essentially get a grasp on what all this takes. We cannot blame Accordance for this in total. They have also commented on here several times that it is very difficult to work with Brill. They may have alot of things they require. If you do have Logos, note how many times Brill resources go on sale, it is almost NEVER. That is a choice of the publisher that is stipulated in the usage of the license. That is just a hint at how these publishers are. Do I like it? Nope, but it is business and their target audience is universities and libraries, not us as individuals. Logos gets them in that market to a degree. Can Accordance do that? Maybe but it will take alot of support, time, marketing, and technological support which means more $$ in expenses.

 

Yet I digress- I hope this is some helpful insight to all. Remember, Accordance is a for profit company, and we all benefit from helping the product and the market.

[Donald Cobb]

Well said Matt. Thank you!

[Unix]

I agree with Fabian. You can't know for certain how much the profit or loss will be. That isn't a problem however, since the bigger issue is whether things are ever meant to be enabled.

What You can know for certain, however, is that the path You choose from 2022-2023 and onwards, is the path You choose and thereafter it is without funding from us Scientists. if You want something paid, options are: A) Only customers pay all expenses by each buying their copy and Accordance makes only the marginal profit from each which may lead into loss if over a long period of time the turnover is not enough to finance the whole process of software-development, module-development, marketing, support in the forums on phone and over email and chat, license-costs, ALL payrolls, staff-only events, possible interest-payments, electricity, heat, water and plumbing, rent or other costs for office-space and homes, servers and bandwidth. Or A) PLUS accepting having a few module-developments that others such as me, have picked, partially financed externally: Not only by "mere" Storefront ready module-purchases.

 

If both the few high-cost-per-module publishers AND Accordance focus only on maximal profit per sold unit, we are stuck in the currently available formats. It probably costs less to print a book than all the above costs because it takes no further work - the books are already printed or distributed on websites (usually in expensive memberships or in bulk ebook bundles geared to institutions and the wealthiest individual researchers); than to put in extra effort and pay all support costs and transaction-costs for markets that can't reach everyone (not that they potentially couldn't, just that marketing would take effort - and I could help with marketing a while from now down the road, right now it will still take me a bit of time to balance up everything that I do).

 

Risks need to be taken, as in most businesses.

But if the direction of the path is not changed within a few Years everyone with deep and broad research-needs will go to the limited existing formats, and the cost will be on them: The hassle with print books, the need to be constantly with internet connection (which does cost over time, and I do know for certain that it is possible to be completely without internet for extended time-periods and I've put that into practice: Most of the time I've had very limited or no internet usage possibilities, also almost my entire life I have not had a chance to install anything). What is essential is a desk-phone line, it doesn't go down during power-cuts, doesn't fluctuate in price (fixed Monthly cost keeps going up which is reasonable and I fully accept, but per minute rates have always gone down so far), doesn't cost any electricity at all, reaches anyone with serious business, and enables the owner to receive international requests for both expertise as well as experience, as well as identifies the user quickly and securely because of living alone. Additionally a desk phone line ensures that both parties in a phone-call hear each other (which can never be guaranteed with cell-phones since people can be anywhere when they make or receive a call).

 

If You can't or won't take any risk it stiffles research for good. There aren't any reasonable alternatives. And it's not just me. And You can't track ALL interest just through this forum. There aren't any other suitable platforms or softwares. The biggest competitor is barely comparable since in practise it is usually not guaranteed that an account has a lifetime duration of multiple generations, and because they push so much junk and filler books that it's unreasonable to expect any customer to have a focused, well-organised, or even Scientific library.

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/24365-the-encyclopedia-of-hebrew-language-and-linguistics-brill/

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/23290-replace-the-images-in-the-bdb-complete-with-its-searchable-text/?findpost=131575

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/25907-encyclopedia-britannica-1911-edition/

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/27957-de-gruyter-scholarly-titles-monographs-in-theology-religious-studies-jewish-studies-history-linguistics-mathematics-physics-chemistry-materials/

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/18488-had-the-logos-guys-give-me-a-demo/?p=133692

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/20932-accordance-has-risen-to-the-top/?findpost=118400

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/18480-wanting-to-see-certain-badly-outdated-books-to-be-removed-from-original-languages-and-bible-study-collections/page-1

http://https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/27690-develop-a-point-update-to-v12-beyond-support-to-support-new-book-formats/

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/25241-will-it-make-a-difference-to-you-when-looking-for-something-to-buy-if-a-module-of-the-type-you-need-requires-a-specific-software-version-for-install/?p=126738

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/24197-for-a-really-major-ver-release-which-i-welcome-next-year-intra-testamental-sourcing-of-the-ot-incl-deuterocanonicals-of-parallels-of-theologies/

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/24346-those-who-have-various-contacts-in-northern-europe-compare-libraries-purc-strategies-specific-quests-find-people-you-look-into-other-religions/

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/20908-reading-from-right-to-left-essays-on-the-hebrew-bible-in-honour-of-david-j-a-clines-by-williamson-cheryl-exum-and-exodus-1974-by-childs-otl/

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/22854-relating-to-the-text-interdisciplinary-and-form-critical-insights-on-the-bible/

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/21985-f-f-bruce-acts-3rd-edition-1990-more-focused-on-the-gk/
https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/25374-evangelisch-katholischer-kommentar-zum-neuen-testament-ekk/

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/13279-request-ancient-near-eastern-texts-and-tools-relating-to-the-old-testament/page-2?do=findComment&comment=135676

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/20795-princeton-symposium-on-the-dead-sea-scrolls-series-3-vols-2006-by-charlesworth-or-replacement/

[MattChristianOT]

I agree with Fabian. You can't know for certain how much the profit or loss will be. That isn't a problem however, since the bigger issue is whether things are ever meant to be enabled.

What You can know for certain, however, is that the path You choose from 2022-2023 and onwards, is the path You choose and thereafter it is without funding from us Scientists. if You want something paid, options are: A) Only customers pay all expenses by each buying their copy and Accordance makes only the marginal profit from each which may lead into loss if over a long period of time the turnover is not enough to finance the whole process of software-development, module-development, marketing, support in the forums on phone and over email and chat, license-costs, ALL payrolls, staff-only events, possible interest-payments, electricity, heat, water and plumbing, rent or other costs for office-space and homes, servers and bandwidth. Or A) PLUS accepting having a few module-developments that others such as me, have picked, partially financed externally: Not only by "mere" Storefront ready module-purchases.

 

If both the few high-cost-per-module publishers AND Accordance focus only on maximal profit per sold unit, we are stuck in the currently available formats. It probably costs less to print a book than all the above costs because it takes no further work - the books are already printed or distributed on websites (usually in expensive memberships or in bulk ebook bundles geared to institutions and the wealthiest individual researchers); than to put in extra effort and pay all support costs and transaction-costs for markets that can't reach everyone (not that they potentially couldn't, just that marketing would take effort - and I could help with marketing a while from now down the road, right now it will still take me a bit of time to balance up everything that I do).

 

Risks need to be taken, as in most businesses.

But if the direction of the path is not changed within a few Years everyone with deep and broad research-needs will go to the limited existing formats, and the cost will be on them: The hassle with print books, the need to be constantly with internet connection (which does cost over time, and I do know for certain that it is possible to be completely without internet for extended time-periods and I've put that into practice: Most of the time I've had very limited or no internet usage possibilities, also almost my entire life I have not had a chance to install anything). What is essential is a desk-phone line, it doesn't go down during power-cuts, doesn't fluctuate in price (fixed Monthly cost keeps going up which is reasonable and I fully accept, but per minute rates have always gone down so far), doesn't cost any electricity at all, reaches anyone with serious business, and enables the owner to receive international requests for both expertise as well as experience, as well as identifies the user quickly and securely because of living alone. Additionally a desk phone line ensures that both parties in a phone-call hear each other (which can never be guaranteed with cell-phones since people can be anywhere when they make or receive a call).

 

If You can't or won't take any risk it stiffles research for good. There aren't any reasonable alternatives. And it's not just me. And You can't track ALL interest just through this forum. There aren't any other suitable platforms or softwares. The biggest competitor is barely comparable since in practise it is usually not guaranteed that an account has a lifetime duration of multiple generations, and because they push so much junk and filler books that it's unreasonable to expect any customer to have a focused, well-organised, or even Scientific library.

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/24365-the-encyclopedia-of-hebrew-language-and-linguistics-brill/

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/23290-replace-the-images-in-the-bdb-complete-with-its-searchable-text/?findpost=131575

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/25907-encyclopedia-britannica-1911-edition/

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/27957-de-gruyter-scholarly-titles-monographs-in-theology-religious-studies-jewish-studies-history-linguistics-mathematics-physics-chemistry-materials/

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/18488-had-the-logos-guys-give-me-a-demo/?p=133692

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/20932-accordance-has-risen-to-the-top/?findpost=118400

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/18480-wanting-to-see-certain-badly-outdated-books-to-be-removed-from-original-languages-and-bible-study-collections/page-1

http://https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/27690-develop-a-point-update-to-v12-beyond-support-to-support-new-book-formats/

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/25241-will-it-make-a-difference-to-you-when-looking-for-something-to-buy-if-a-module-of-the-type-you-need-requires-a-specific-software-version-for-install/?p=126738

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/24197-for-a-really-major-ver-release-which-i-welcome-next-year-intra-testamental-sourcing-of-the-ot-incl-deuterocanonicals-of-parallels-of-theologies/

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/24346-those-who-have-various-contacts-in-northern-europe-compare-libraries-purc-strategies-specific-quests-find-people-you-look-into-other-religions/

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/20908-reading-from-right-to-left-essays-on-the-hebrew-bible-in-honour-of-david-j-a-clines-by-williamson-cheryl-exum-and-exodus-1974-by-childs-otl/

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/22854-relating-to-the-text-interdisciplinary-and-form-critical-insights-on-the-bible/

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/21985-f-f-bruce-acts-3rd-edition-1990-more-focused-on-the-gk/

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/25374-evangelisch-katholischer-kommentar-zum-neuen-testament-ekk/

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/13279-request-ancient-near-eastern-texts-and-tools-relating-to-the-old-testament/page-2?do=findComment&comment=135676

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/20795-princeton-symposium-on-the-dead-sea-scrolls-series-3-vols-2006-by-charlesworth-or-replacement/

They need to be willing to work with Accordance FIRST and Accordance has stated they basically won't. If you can't even get the car started you can't drive....

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Hi Matt, Oaktree,

 

They need to be willing to work with Accordance FIRST and Accordance has stated they basically won't. If you can't even get the car started you can't drive....

I looked over the posts on Brill the other day looking for a definitive statement from Oaktree on this point. I could not find one. For precisely this reason, I recently posted a direct request for a response from Oaktree on this point, in the specific instance of the BrillDAG lexicon. If you have the post from which that comes I would be interested to see it. None, has so far materialized.

 

I would dearly love not to buy some of these materials in Logos - and I am very close to doing that for BrillDAG. The reason is because cross product integration is very poor compared to in-product integration. I cannot simply click on a word in Accordance in the LXX and right click and look up in both Logos and Accordance for example. Of course copy and paste does work and there may be a way to shorten the click path there but I'm not sure yet. It might be easier on Mac but I digress. I also don't particularly wish to learn another piece of software when I am happy with and knowledgeable enough on this one. But on the flipside I need the materials.

 

I come more and more to the position that you have put forward before - Accordance for OL text research, Logos for a library. I of course would like to see the grammars and lexica combined with the text research platform as they are so often used in close relation. Alas, this is not possible for all the resources I would want.

 

We know that we are basically not going to get works from Lexham Press, which is again unfortunate, and a lengthy thread could be spawned on that issue too. It seems we should assume the same for Brill at this point.

 

So, could someone from Oaktree weigh in with anything definitive ?

 

Thx

D

[Fabian]

Hi Matt, Oaktree,

 

I looked over the posts on Brill the other day looking for a definitive statement from Oaktree on this point. I could not find one. For precisely this reason, I recently posted a direct request for a response from Oaktree on this point, in the specific instance of the BrillDAG lexicon. If you have the post from which that comes I would be interested to see it. None, has so far materialized.

 

I would dearly love not to buy some of these materials in Logos - and I am very close to doing that for BrillDAG. The reason is because cross product integration is very poor compared to in-product integration. I cannot simply click on a word in Accordance in the LXX and right click and look up in both Logos and Accordance for example. Of course copy and paste does work and there may be a way to shorten the click path there but I'm not sure yet. It might be easier on Mac but I digress. I also don't particularly wish to learn another piece of software when I am happy with and knowledgeable enough on this one. But on the flipside I need the materials.

 

I come more and more to the position that you have put forward before - Accordance for OL text research, Logos for a library. I of course would like to see the grammars and lexica combined with the text research platform as they are so often used in close relation. Alas, this is not possible for all the resources I would want.

 

We know that we are basically not going to get works from Lexham Press, which is again unfortunate, and a lengthy thread could be spawned on that issue too. It seems we should assume the same for Brill at this point.

 

So, could someone from Oaktree weigh in with anything definitive ?

 

Thx

D

I have seen lastly your post on the other Forums

 

Greetings

 

Fabian

[Jordan S]

We are waiting for Brill to return contracts regarding a number of items, including BrillDAG. NTTSD was not on that list, but I will forward the request to the appropriate people. Items that are in high demand, like BrillDAG, will move to the top of the development list. So, thanks to everyone for voicing your requests in the forums.

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Jordan, so many thanx to you for the update. I will wait on BrillDAG for the moment then as

having this in Accordance would be fantastic.

 

Thx

D

[Donald Cobb]

I don't want to poopoo BrillDAG but...

 

Full disclosure, I've been using it in "that other software" for the last 3-4 months. I haven't made a thorough comparison with LSJ so what I'm saying is incomplete. It is quite possible that there is vocabulary that is in BrillDAG that is not included in LSJ.

 

But, when I look up a word in one lexicon, I systematically check it against the other. My provisional conclusion: the definitions (which are glosses in both cases) are very often identical or very close. LSJ is actually more detailed in the references it gives to the cited literature, BrillDAG generally only mentioning the name of the author who uses it. 

 

I don't doubt that the translation/linguistic principles behind BrillDAG are much more cutting edge, and in six months, after additional exposure, I could well change my mind on the subject. Others on this forum may also have other perspectives. Bottom line: as a Greek/NT teacher, I have this tool because would be irresponsible for me not to have it. But I cannot say that has really moved me beyond what I had already in LSJ and BDAG plus some of the other tools I have in Accordance.

 

So, would it be good to have BrillDAG in Accordance? Yes, absolutely. Would I buy it a second time if it were offered? Yes. Would I recommend it over LSJ? Yes, because it's more recent. Do I feel like not having it there is a big drawback? At this point, no. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Donald Cobb

[MattChristianOT]

I don't want to poopoo BrillDAG but...

 

Full disclosure, I've been using it in "that other software" for the last 3-4 months. I haven't made a thorough comparison with LSJ so what I'm saying is incomplete. It is quite possible that there is vocabulary that is in BrillDAG that is not included in LSJ.

 

But, when I look up a word in one lexicon, I systematically check it against the other. My provisional conclusion: the definitions (which are glosses in both cases) are very often identical or very close. LSJ is actually more detailed in the references it gives to the cited literature, BrillDAG generally only mentioning the name of the author who uses it. 

 

I don't doubt that the translation/linguistic principles behind BrillDAG are much more cutting edge, and in six months, after additional exposure, I could well change my mind on the subject. Others on this forum may also have other perspectives. Bottom line: as a Greek/NT teacher, I have this tool because would be irresponsible for me not to have it. But I cannot say that has really moved me beyond what I had already in LSJ and BDAG plus some of the other tools I have in Accordance.

 

So, would it be good to have BrillDAG in Accordance? Yes, absolutely. Would I buy it a second time if it were offered? Yes. Would I recommend it over LSJ? Yes, because it's more recent. Do I feel like not having it there is a big drawback? At this point, no. 

I have been gravitating towards Semantic based lexicons myself which in OT fields are small in number and typically based on research projects and websites from universities, rarely in a published format (maybe someday). Overall, I am glad Oaktree is working on these things but as can be seen, the wait is on the end of Brill, not Oaktree. There were never definitive statements before but they certainly affirmed the difficulty was on the end of the publisher. Yes general interest cannot be relegated to responses on the forums, but this is the best way to make it clear what we as consumers want. However, like most places of business, I cannot go into a Wendy's Hamburger place and ask for an omelette, Maybe eventually, but it takes time, expressed interest, and resources.

[miketisdell]

We are waiting for Brill to return contracts regarding a number of items, including BrillDAG. NTTSD was not on that list, but I will forward the request to the appropriate people. Items that are in high demand, like BrillDAG, will move to the top of the development list. So, thanks to everyone for voicing your requests in the forums.

 

I too am waiting for BrillDAG on Accordance. I invest in Logos resources (like Lexham Press) only when I am pretty sure I will not be able to get them in Accordance.

[markusvonkaenel]

a bit of topic: what is the advantage of Brill over TDNT? 

[Unix]

Inside one URL in my long comment I made a typo easy spot. Since I knew I didn't make a typo in the text itself and was careful with the links I didn't read through everything right after I posted. The correct URL is: https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/27690-develop-a-point-update-to-v12-beyond-support-to-support-new-book-formats/ ... and is about further support for version 12. I have NO way (could not afford now regardless of price, I saw the sale and my account has been overdrafted last Month and still is again this Month despite that I tried to put cash in twice but too little), nor willingness, to upgrade to version 13, next upgrade for me will be version 14. And I'm equipping at least a dozen accounts that are not mine, with version 12, so it is a concern for most Accordance users I know in person:

I agree with Fabian. You can't know for certain how much the profit or loss will be. That isn't a problem however, since the bigger issue is whether things are ever meant to be enabled.

What You can know for certain, however, is that the path You choose from 2022-2023 and onwards, is the path You choose and thereafter it is without funding from us Scientists. [...]

Risks need to be taken, [...]

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/27690-develop-a-point-update-to-v12-beyond-support-to-support-new-book-formats/

 

Big thanks, Jordan S!!:

We are waiting for Brill to return contracts regarding a number of items, including BrillDAG. NTTSD was not on that list, but I will forward the request to the appropriate people. Items that are in high demand, like BrillDAG, will move to the top of the development list. So, thanks to everyone for voicing your requests in the forums.

 

There is NO risk that (except the few more simple modules of them that they already have since a long time) Logos develops the books that I suggested in the links. I can know this, I was there from day one when they would have wanted to, so I'm the most knowledgeable that You can easily ask:

I would dearly love not to buy some of these materials in Logos - and I am very close to doing that for BrillDAG. The reason is because cross product integration is very poor compared to in-product integration. I cannot simply click on a word in Accordance in the LXX and right click and look up in both Logos and Accordance for example. Of course copy and paste does work and there may be a way to shorten the click path there but I'm not sure yet. It might be easier on Mac but I digress. I also don't particularly wish to learn another piece of software when I am happy with and knowledgeable enough on this one. But on the flipside I need the materials.

 

Without Accordance team developing them, I'm aquiring or using NONE of the books I suggested! I can not use more simple formats or live with restricted duration how long they are accessible. By non-action You destroy large and important parts of my authoring. Still willing to finance development directly, in advance when You are going to start to develop, as stated in a couple of the URL:s!

I will also pay for upgrade to version 14 when it comes two Years from now, regardless of at what price-level, whatever You ask for it and it's functionality or content and databases! I highly recommend to raise the price multiple-fold!

 

 

Logos is not a library, they are lacking things they will never have, they aren't neither wanting to nor daring to add anything interesting. They won't develop any de Gruyter books. They won't manage to gather interest within a Decade from now for anything. They aren't the choice of many. Few lay users and Scientists use them, I've done A LOT (in terms of effort and result) last Year so that the latter would use ebooks.noet. They don't have a sustainable cost-structure, they put way too much into overkill Bible- and Theology-related databases and software development and they have unsolvable things in their desktop software code that they can't make fast, ever. They also aren't considerate about Mobile platform users, see: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/189978.aspx ... I'm chocked- I had problems with this about three and a half to six Years ago with them on a very old version of their software for Android 2.something (devices could not upgrade to 4 and the storage memories filled up completely and in the end I could do nothing to delete anything since they went unsupported (both were the same model Nook and I got them in used state with just Android and no apps)), and grew fed up with it - that about the button for individual book download. They have done nothing about that in all these Years, I didn't put in a request.

 

 

de Gruyter is the only publisher I will buy books from if Accordance never tends to my requests and/or if there is no demand or co-operation and if none of my friends or co-authors put in some extra additjonal € compared to what I already expect them to. I will then see how much I can get within a smaller budget.

IF Accordance develops de Gruyer books I buy just as I stated and for the sizable budget of tens of thousands of US$a I said I would! No loans, no usage of checking account nor payment-plans!

[miketisdell]

a bit of topic: what is the advantage of Brill over TDNT? 

 

Theological dictionaries tend to have much more limited vocabulary but with much greater detail for each entry. BrillDAG would be similar to BDAG (not TDNT).

[MattChristianOT]

Just because a web developer doesn't have ONE publisher doesn't make them a non-Library. Most platforms like this do not hunt after niche material. Accordance is for seminary students and pastors and lay people with interest. It is focused on biblical texts. de Gruyter has great resources, but may not have a good e book platform or be willing to work with any software developers. You take away the printing of hard books, you take away vested jobs and the ability for libraries and institutions to shelve books for patrons etc. You have to cut Accordance and Logos some slack, they are doing what sells, they have good marketing, and they are focused on their bigger market, seminary students, missionaries and Bible scholars that are working on specific tasks such as textual searches etc. They are not looking to fill a market for comparative semitics and full blown ANE textual work n languages other than Hebrew and some Ugaritic. Those are small markets and a vocal few will not buy enough to make a feasible impact. You have to realize that these companies pay WAY more for a book license and publisher deal than just the simple cost per book we can get from a publisher. They are physically buying under contract the rights to an electronic book (which is a risk to many as it is a duplicable file) and that cost is than added to the cost of formatting, updating, and supporting on the platform. Bugs creep in, edits need to happen, textual and resource linking, all costs money. Then they need to turn around and sell it at a reasonable rate so that enough people purchase the book to cover that cost, and they want to make more than that, since they are for profit after all. Some publishers don't want to haggle and it just gets to pricey then. We do the same on here. We wait for sales and deals and such all the time. When it comes down to it, it is not about taking a risk to fulfill a few end users, it is about being fiscally responsible so that they can maintain the company and eventually provide more content and ability. If they put all their money into a contract with a difficult publisher with nt much promise on return, they end up in a bad place. It's not good business

[Unix]

I know all these things. But I don't agree for example about marketing. I'm with the World's most skilled marketer that could reach two Billion people within the duration of little more than a Year. Logos' marketing is not good at all,

they usually only market staple products that they know new users will be and can negotiate with the publishers about, and they pester users with way too much of all of that, in fact whatever You want from them in reality You have to manually check sales almost daily for a few Years, still in multiple places - and all You see is backlisted unsallable material anyway, the useful material is tricky to get and requires multiple-Year, closer to a Decade-long, purchase strategies. I do believe they make a cut that way, but they sure don't save time for users that know exactly what they want, I ignore their EVERY sale since a while, my last purchases were tiny and I believe I will never return whether as a customer or developer (100% certain about the latter, it's finished anyhow).

Also about Accordande sales: I've bought full-price list-price items for thousands of $s, it's appropriate for everyone to do simply out of supporting them. Additionally I don't buy ANY bundles, I know I spend more than what is asked for for bundles that contain the exact same items, I just don't want quality for cheap regardless of if they could or even want to equip people. I did buy a few sets though because I know myself: I could have easily cherry-picked highly accurately and have been able to for Years (which is obvious if You see my completely worn out thumbed-through bibliographies that I have read thousands of time so that You can barely make out that it's a book and shocks people), but I figured it's in some cases no-longer necessary to show which exact volumes and authors I truly support (particularly by my own purchases) so instead I created a FB group for discussion of commentaries: (I have a fairly new whole, own, FB group for this very topic, all welcome to join! Have got lots of expertise. Novices may learn from experts here. Experts may discuss together and list: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2290154717874594/ ), and will still keep the promise I made long ago on here that I will write dozens of reviews in a few Months (things like health-, research combined with relationship -concerns came in between in fact to part until this very day when I this morning expect them to finally solve, especially the latter things).

I'll of course buy a bundle of de Gruyter books costing well over €10k, if Accordance wants to sell it like I said I was there from day one, they will license out, I don't represent them nor promise anything on their behalf or promise anything. Logos just won't - they can't.

The very best publishers will see Accordance for what they are. Best equals they have what others can't match AND are European.

Also, I dedicate so much more now to Sciences and EB1911. Much of what used to be on the agenda for at least a Hundred Years has run its course now:

Just because a web developer doesn't have ONE publisher doesn't make them a non-Library. Most platforms like this do not hunt after niche material. Accordance is for seminary students and pastors and lay people with interest. It is focused on biblical texts. de Gruyter has great resources, but may not have a good e book platform or be willing to work with any software developers. You take away the printing of hard books, you take away vested jobs and the ability for libraries and institutions to shelve books for patrons etc. You have to cut Accordance and Logos some slack, they are doing what sells, they have good marketing, and they are focused on their bigger market, seminary students, missionaries and Bible scholars that are working on specific tasks such as textual searches etc. They are not looking to fill a market for comparative semitics and full blown ANE textual work n languages other than Hebrew and some Ugaritic. Those are small markets and a vocal few will not buy enough to make a feasible impact. You have to realize that these companies pay WAY more for a book license and publisher deal than just the simple cost per book we can get from a publisher. They are physically buying under contract the rights to an electronic book (which is a risk to many as it is a duplicable file) and that cost is than added to the cost of formatting, updating, and supporting on the platform. Bugs creep in, edits need to happen, textual and resource linking, all costs money. Then they need to turn around and sell it at a reasonable rate so that enough people purchase the book to cover that cost, and they want to make more than that, since they are for profit after all. Some publishers don't want to haggle and it just gets to pricey then. We do the same on here. We wait for sales and deals and such all the time. When it comes down to it, it is not about taking a risk to fulfill a few end users, it is about being fiscally responsible

[MattChristianOT]

Again- They market to their target audience that has kept them in business and keeps them still growing. Neither company has driven a campaign and product lines that cater to a small minority of researchers. I think their marketing is just fine on both ends and it has worked for a long time.

[Λύχνις Δαν]

On 4/11/2020 at 12:55 PM, Jordan S said:

We are waiting for Brill to return contracts regarding a number of items, including BrillDAG. NTTSD was not on that list, but I will forward the request to the appropriate people. Items that are in high demand, like BrillDAG, will move to the top of the development list. So, thanks to everyone for voicing your requests in the forums.

Just pinging back to see if there has been any progress here. In particular of course my interest is BrillDAG.

Any update to report ?

 

Thx

D

[Jordan S]

Yes. The Brill Dictionary of Ancient Greek, abbreviated MGS (Montanari-Goh-Schroeder), a.k.a. "BrillDAG," is currently in development.

[Λύχνις Δαν]

14 minutes ago, Jordan S said:

Yes. The Brill Dictionary of Ancient Greek, abbreviated MGS (Montanari-Goh-Schroeder), a.k.a. "BrillDAG," is currently in development.

 

Yay!

 

Thx Jordan.

 

thx

D