Word searches

[pbgroover]

I'm using live click on the word 'encourage' from 1Th 5:11, it opens up 'Lexicon Lookup' and 'Word Usage' tabs, so far so good.

 

I then go to the 'Word Usage' tab as I want to change the range to see how many times the same underlying Greek word for 'encourage' is used in Acts. I change the range from 1Th to Acts and it returns a different Greek word for 'spirit'!

 

In fact, if I change 1Th to anything other than 1Th it returns results for the underlying Greek word for 'spirit' and not 'encourage'.

 

Here are the screen shots, what am I doing wrong? Or is this a bug?

 

I'm on 13.0.1.1, Windows 10

Edited November 13, 2019 by pbgroover

[pbgroover]

Looking at this some more I think I can see what's happening, the list of texts searched on the left is being reordered when I change the range, so if I move down to Mounce & NIV2011 they return the correct underlying Greek word for 'encourage' in Acts (or any other NT book) whereas all the other texts return the word for 'spirit'. I assume this has to do with the G/K numbering system that Mounce & NIV use compared to Strongs which the others use.

 

Since the search was initiated from a live click on a particular word 'encourage', can Accordance not point to both the correct underlying Greek word in either the G/K numbering system or Strongs in the search results? it seems odd to have both 'encourage' and 'spirit' in my list of results, can this be fixed in the way Accordance handles this search?

[pbgroover]

Is this a bug or just a problem in the way Accordance handles live click searches? - either way hope this can be fixed... Thanks

[Joel Brown]

PB, you've got a strange case going on here.  When doing a Word Usage live click, I very reliably get a 'SOURCE' category above my 'TEXTS' category in the research result.  This source category would reliably keep your Mounce text at the top and prevent this odd behavior.  What's also peculiar is that in your first image, the range is spelled '1th', while for all of my Live Click results, the reference is auto-generated and thus should read '1Th.'.

 

How did you generate this Word Usage tab, and accomplish the search?  The two discrepancies I noted imply that this is just a research tab that you typed the query into, rather than coming from a Live Click.

[pbgroover]

Hi Joel,

 

It was initiated as a live click as far as I recall, this opens two new research panes at the bottom of the screen. I then moved the tabs from each research pane to the top mixed pane, as I prefer them as tabs behind the main text, rather than overlaping the text. The tabs may have been reused, but today when I tried to replicate the problem I couldn't. I had retyped 1th while testing, I tried 1th. and 1th. 

 

There is still an issue IMO though... While it's good to have the SOURCE category above the TEXT category, if I want to see how the other texts translated the word 'encourage' I can't do this easily here, as the other texts report a different underlying Greek word for 'spirit' - is there a way for Accordance to report the correct underlying Greek word from a live click for all the texts listed? I appreciate this may change the way Accordance performs the search in the background but this would prove to be much better and useful, since Accordance gives us the option to see different texts in the results.

 

My testing today also revealed some other additional issues:

 

1. In the Word Usage tab, when I move the scroll bar down or use the mouse scroll wheel to see all the texts listed the pane will not scroll back up, so the SOURCE category disappears from view. I have to initiate the search again to get that to come back again. Here is a screen shot of this... 

 

2. When I move the tabs from the research pane to the mixed pane it is very hit and miss. For example I am 100% left mouse clicking on the Lexicon Look Up tab but when I move it up to the mixed pane sometimes it changes to the NIV text tab from the mixed pane, as if I had clicked on that tab instead! Sometimes I have to try several times to get Accordance to register the correct tab to move. Here is a screen shot of this actually happening...

 

3. Is it possible to set as a default where the live click tabs open? I would prefer them to open as tabs in the mixed pane rather than two new research panes?

 

Thanks for your help with this,

Paul 

Edited November 19, 2019 by pbgroover

[pbgroover]

Hi Joel,

 

I've replicated the original problem... After a live click is initiated, if Accordance is closed and then reopened the saved Word Usage tab loses the SOURCE category, then when the range is changed the odd behaviour described above is seen, I've tested it again with 1Th 5:11. Last week I was working over a couple of days with the live click originally done on day 1, then on day 2 I looked again at the saved Word Usage tab and changed the range to find the problem.

 

So there are 4 issues noted, hope this is helpful and you are able to replicate so the tech team can fix.

 

Thanks Paul 

[pbgroover]

Hi Joel / Accordance support,

 

Just checking that these 4 issues with live click / word usage tab have been logged and replicated for fix?

 

I also sent a PM on 21-Nov but it remains unread...

 

Thanks Paul

[John Fidel]

l can confirm that live click cannot make the conversion from Strongs # to GK # if both types of texts are included in the lookup. That is why I do not include them in the same user group. Below is a screenshot that shows the analysis of a live click on strongs #G1343 comparing only the ESV to the NIV 2011. You can see that ESV shows Righteousness and NIV shows Crown, the problem being the numbering system is not converted.

 

[pbgroover]

Hi Joel / Accordance support,

 

Just checking that these 4 issues with live click / word usage tab have been logged and replicated for fix?  

 

As no response since 21-Nov... I also sent a PM on 21-Nov but it remains unread...

 

Thanks Paul

[pbgroover]

Hi Joel / Accordance support,

 

Have these 4 issues with live click / word usage tab been logged and replicated for fix???

 

No response since 21-Nov... and a PM I sent on 21-Nov still remains unread... (?!)

 

Issue 2 - the 'moving tabs bug' is super annoying, hope it gets fixed for next release...

 

Thanks Paul

[Joel Brown]

PB:

 

We don't always have time to respond and reply to every post, but we do read them all.  Let me reply to each of your points:

 

1) We have fixed the issue with the 'Source' disappearing on reopen.

 

2) Fundamentally, it is going to be difficult to accurately map and do a word usage Key search that correctly gives results across both Strong's and GK numbers.  Nothing is impossible with enough time or effort, but this is not a trivial change that we can do in a bug fix release.

 

3) I have reproduced the scrolling issue you mention.  It seems to only happen at certain combinations of window size + number of results, but I can reproduce it.

 

4) I have reproduced your issue with dragging the tabs.  I have found that if you move your mouse slightly right or left at the start of the drag, instead of quickly moving up, it will work more reliably.  Either way, we'll take a look and get it fixed.

 

5) Live click tabs will recycle, wherever they are, so your best bet is to keep them open somewhere, so they are simply reused upon new clicks.

[pbgroover]

Thanks Joel,

 

Appreicate it's a busy time, thanks for the relies and glad you were able to reproduce the issues, all helps to make Accordance that much better 

 

The dragging tabs issues was the one that is frustrating, I tried as you say to move the mouse left/right at the start of the drag, curiously it seems to work. Hope it becomes more stable in the next release.

 

Understand that mapping the word usage across both Strongs and GK numbers will take time. Hope it's pursued though, as I'm sure it will be beneficial to Accordance in the long run. 

 

Paul 

[pbgroover]

Hi Joel,

 

Thanks for fixing items 1) and 3) in 13.0.3

 

However, item 4), the problem with dragging tabs, although mentioned in the release notes as fixed is not fixed and is actually worse than before, as the workaround you gave me now no longer works.

 

For example, if I have 4 panes open and initiate a live click, the "Lexicon Lookup" and "Word Usage" tabs open at the bottom of the screen, dragging either of these results in it changing immediately to "ESV with Strongs" tab. Your workaround of moving the mouse slightly right and left at the start of the drag, a workaround I was using pretty much successfully, now no longer works. The tab now always changes to "ESV with Strongs", making moving it impossible in this configuration.

 

However, if I have 3 panes open and initiate a live click, the "Lexicon Lookup" and "Word Usage" tabs open at the side of the screen, dragging the top tab "Lexicon Lookup" now works fine, however trying to drag the bottom tab "Word Usage" is not possible, as it now changes to "Lexicon Lookup" every time.

 

Here are some screen shots of the problem, is there another workaround you can suggest while we wait for a fix in the next release? 

Edited January 8, 2020 by pbgroover

[pbgroover]

Joel,

 

The only workaround I can find is to right click on the research tabs and detatch both of them, which creates two new workspaces, then from here I can drag them back to the original workspace without them changing. Very longwinded, but it works for now.

 

However there is a further problem... once the tabs have been moved to the main workspace recycling the tab doesn't work properly. Once moved, if I live click on a new word, it updates in the tab fine, but then if I live click on another word doesn't work, nothing happens. I have to minimise Accordance and reopen it for live click to work again. So the workaround here is to continually minimise and reopen Accordance for live click to work which is not very practical.

 

Hope this can be fixed soon as live click is such a great feature.

 

Thanks Paul

[pbgroover]

Joel / support,

 

Any word on this bug that’s been made worse in the latest update???

[Silas Marrs]

This is fixed for 13.0.4.  Let me know if you see it after that.

[pbgroover]

Thanks Silas - will do

[pbgroover]

Silas - thanks for fixing the drag tabs bug for 13.0.4, so glad this is fixed now!

 

However, the secondary live click issue reported still remains and isn't fixed:

 

However there is a further problem... once the tabs have been moved to the main workspace recycling the tab doesn't work properly. Once moved, if I live click on a new word, it updates in the tab fine, but then if I live click on another word doesn't work, nothing happens. I have to minimise Accordance and reopen it for live click to work again. So the workaround here is to continually minimise and reopen Accordance for live click to work which is not very practical.

 

Hope this can be fixed soon as live click is such a great feature.

 

 

It's strange that live click works fine when the tabs are in their opening position, I can click on many words and the lexicon/word usage tabs update every time. But after the tabs have been moved live click no longer works properly as per the above report from 09-Jan.

 

The opening position though leaves very little space on the screen, hence the reason for moving the tabs, please see below screen shots for the two configurations, hope you can identify the bug from this...

 

Thanks Paul 

[pbgroover]

Silas / Accordance team,

 

Just checking that the above 'live click not working' issue has been logged and/or reproduced for a fix?

 

-----

 

PS, thanks Joel / Accordance team for implementing the 'Improved a Live Click Research of key numbers to work better between Strong’s and GK' feature in 13.0.4, further to Joel's reply on this thread on 12-Dec I didn't expect this so soon, very impressive!   

 

2) Fundamentally, it is going to be difficult to accurately map and do a word usage Key search that correctly gives results across both Strong's and GK numbers.  Nothing is impossible with enough time or effort, but this is not a trivial change that we can do in a bug fix release.

[pbgroover]

Silas / Accordance team,

 

Just checking that the above 'live click not working' issue has been logged for a fix as no response to this?

 

Silas - thanks for fixing the drag tabs bug for 13.0.4, so glad this is fixed now!

 

However, the secondary live click issue reported still remains and isn't fixed:

 

 

pbgroover, on 09 Jan 2020 - 11:19 AM, said:

 

However there is a further problem... once the tabs have been moved to the main workspace recycling the tab doesn't work properly. Once moved, if I live click on a new word, it updates in the tab fine, but then if I live click on another word doesn't work, nothing happens. I have to minimise Accordance and reopen it for live click to work again. So the workaround here is to continually minimise and reopen Accordance for live click to work which is not very practical.

 

Hope this can be fixed soon as live click is such a great feature.

 

 

It's strange that live click works fine when the tabs are in their opening position, I can click on many words and the lexicon/word usage tabs update every time. But after the tabs have been moved live click no longer works properly as per the above report from 09-Jan.

 

The opening position though leaves very little space on the screen, hence the reason for moving the tabs, please see below screen shots for the two configurations, hope you can identify the bug from this...

 

Thanks Paul 

 

[pbgroover]

Silas / Accordance team,

 

Has this 'live click not working' issue been identified for a fix for the next update, as there's been no response since 20-Jan...?

[Silas Marrs]

Just so I am sure I understand, the steps to reproduce are:

1. Do a live click.
2. Move the research tabs to a new workspace.
3. Move them back to the first workspace.

I have tired this, and live click still works after step 2, and after step 3.  I have not been able to reproduce this issue at all on Windows 10 in 13.0.4.

 

Can you send me your workspace so I can see if there is something odd going on with it?

 

Also, a screenshot of your live click settings may help.

[pbgroover]

Hi Silas,

 

I’m not sure your steps are correct to reproduce the problem, the steps are:

 

1. Do a live click, 2 research tabs will open in a separate research pane beside or below the main text pane.

2. Move the research tabs to the main text pane, so the tabs sit behind the Bible text tab and the separate research pane disappears.

3. In this configuration live click will work only one more time - the word live clicked will update in the research tabs once, but then will not work for any subsequent live clicks, the research tabs do not recycle as expected. The research tabs will continue to show the previous live clicked word and will not update.

4. This behaviour does not happen if the research tabs are left in a separate pane beside or below the main pane. But as expressed above this configuration severely limits screen space on my lap top.

 

I don’t have access to my lap top until next week but hopefully the above clarification of the steps will help to reproduce the problem. If not I can send a copy of my workspace next week. Please let me know if this helps.

 

Thanks Paul

[pbgroover]

Hi Silas,

 

I've sent a copy of the workspace to you as requested, hope this helps identify the problem.

 

Thanks Paul

[Silas Marrs]

Good morning.  I think I have reproduce the bug in the workspace you sent me.  Can you check if the live click works if you click the word twice?  As far as I can tell, the bug is that you need to click a pane twice to get the click to register the first time you switch back to a tab from another tab.