A. Smith Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Can someone show me Gen 3.8 in the Gott LXX? I’m curious about the neuter rel pronoun that shows up in Rahlfs and Swete. I thought it was a typo but it’s present in my printed texts and electronic texts. Any ideas? καὶ ἐκρύβησαν ὅ τε Αδαμ καὶ ἡ γυνὴ αὐτοῦ ἀπὸ προσώπου κυρίου τοῦ θεοῦ ἐν μέσῳ τοῦ ξύλου τοῦ παραδείσου It really looks like it should just be an article. Very strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Cobb Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 (edited) Hi Anthony. It actually is a masculin article. It's true that articles aren't generally accented. The exception is when they precede anοther enclitic, which is the case here, with τε. Cf. Smyth: 185. When several enclitics occur in succession, each receives an accent from the following, only the last having no accent: εἴ πού τίς τινα ἴδοι ἐχθρόν if ever any one saw an enemy anywhere T. 4. 47. Herbert Weir Smyth, A Greek Grammar for Colleges (New York; Cincinnati; Chicago; Boston; Atlanta: American Book Company, 1920), 43. Hope that helps! Edited November 19, 2018 by Donald Cobb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Smith Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 I was just coming to comment that I spaced and totally forgot about enclitics! Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattChristianOT Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Hi Anthony. It actually is a masculin article. It's true that articles aren't generally accented. The exception is when they precede anοther enclitic, which is the case here, with τε. Cf. Smyth: 185. When several enclitics occur in succession, each receives an accent from the following, only the last having no accent: εἴ πού τίς τινα ἴδοι ἐχθρόν if ever any one saw an enemy anywhere T. 4. 47. Herbert Weir Smyth, A Greek Grammar for Colleges (New York; Cincinnati; Chicago; Boston; Atlanta: American Book Company, 1920), 43. Hope that helps! My Greek is not as good as my Semitic linguistics- Is this due to a phonological issue? Or some sort of "lengthening" of the vocalization due to the shortening of the form to an enclitic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Smith Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 (edited) Yes. It’s phonetic. There are other implications, too re discourse and other fascinating topics. But primarily it’s about philology. I liken it to a shewa. A sound that is there because it has to be but really doesn’t want to be there, lol. Edited November 19, 2018 by A. Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattChristianOT Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Yes. It’s phonetic. There are other implications, too re discourse and other fascinating topics. But primarily it’s about philology. I liken it to a shewa. A sound that is there because it has to be but really doesn’t want to be there, lol. Understood- Any works on Greek phonology you would recommend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Smith Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 Understood- Any works on Greek phonology you would recommend? Well, it's not up to date but the man was far ahead of his time. He was also an unsung contributing editor to the LN Lexicon. Smith, Rondal Bruce. "Empirical Evidence and Theoretical Interpretations of Greek Phonology: Prolegomena to a Theory of Sound Patterns in the Hellenistic Greek ‘Koine’." Ph.D. dissertation, Indiana University, 1972. I'd also check out the Encyclopedia of Ancient Greek Language and Linguistics. Phonology is not something I've paid much attention to, honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattChristianOT Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Well, it's not up to date but the man was far ahead of his time. He was also an unsung contributing editor to the LN Lexicon. Smith, Rondal Bruce. "Empirical Evidence and Theoretical Interpretations of Greek Phonology: Prolegomena to a Theory of Sound Patterns in the Hellenistic Greek ‘Koine’." Ph.D. dissertation, Indiana University, 1972. I'd also check out the Encyclopedia of Ancient Greek Language and Linguistics. Phonology is not something I've paid much attention to, honestly. I will check those out when I get some free time- Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Cobb Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 The short explanation: according to the accent system going back to the 3d century BCE and elaborated by Aristophanes of Alexandria (apparently), enclitics lose their tonic accent when used with another word. This means that that they are pronounced together with the preceding word on which they "lean" (ἐγκλίνειν). Depending on the length of the vowels and the number of syllables in that word, it can take on a supplementary accent (which is why we see things like ἄνθρωπός τις, ἄνθρωπος receiving a supplementary accent–which is probably the only one really being stressed–because of the τις following it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accord Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 .... enclitics lose their tonic accent when used with another word. This means that that they are pronounced together with the preceding word on which they "lean" (ἐγκλίνειν). silly question perhaps, but does this in any way have an impact upon the meaning when an enclitic is used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 It doesn't affect the meaning of either word in any case I know of, but it can make identification of the words harder. I had a case in Josephus the other day where an enclitic threw an accent back onto tis which I then mistook for an interrogative rather than indefinite pronoun. Ooops. Needless to say my mistake did indeed affect the meaning but that isn't the accent changing the meaning, just me making a mistake. Thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accord Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 It doesn't affect the meaning of either word in any case I know of, but it can make identification of the words harder. I had a case in Josephus the other day where an enclitic threw an accent back onto tis which I then mistook for an interrogative rather than indefinite pronoun. Ooops. Needless to say my mistake did indeed affect the meaning but that isn't the accent changing the meaning, just me making a mistake. Thx D Thank you D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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