The sad state of Mobile Bible software

[pastormichaelwilson]

This is an open letter to Accordance Bible Software and Logos/Faithlife Bible software.

 

In the late 1998 I had a palm device.  Probably the V or Vx.  Someone told me about a new Bible reader program for the Palm so I found it and installed it.  It was a basic reader with 2 panes where I could load 2 books.  I was able to get an early version of the NET Bible and study notes and install it on my device.  The Bible reader eventually became Olive Tree Bible software and as more books were added to the library, the reader remained a 2 pane window.

 

Fast forward to today.  I have an iPad Pro 10.5”. There are now three top companies in the Bible software business.  I can load Olive Tree’s latest offering, Accordance’s mobile app and any one of the numerous mobile apps from Logos/Faithlife.  If I launch them, they look exactly like things did on my palm device back in 1998.  I get a window with 2 panes and I can load any two books I want and sometimes they sync when I scroll.  A cursory look would show that nothing has really changed in almost 20 years.  As the power of mobile devices, both tablets and phones are growing and growing, the functionality of these mobile apps seems stalled.  All three Bible software companies offer desktop application and Accordance and Logos allow me to have dozens of books open in any window configuration I want.  Yet, I cannot replicate this layout on any mobile device.

 

Apple has released the Pro line of iPads as laptop replacements.  Their success in this regard is still debated.  However, it would be expected, I think to go to a coffee shop and pull out my iPad or larger phone and load a layout from my desktop.  Granted, there would be memory and speed issues, but I could do it.  I can go to a coffee shop with my 2016 MacBook 12” and load any of the layouts saved on the desktop but mobile devices are not allowed.

 

Logos has placed the various guides and documents created on the desktop on the mobile app.  I can create an exegetical guide on any passage right on my phone and if I save it, it will show up on my desktop.  However, I still only get a 2 pane window.  One is taken up with the exegetical guide and the other can have a Bible or commentary.  

 

Accordance has created a wonderful “Info Pane” on their desktop app, but there is no sign of it on mobile.  Having the information on this pane on the mobile would be a great addition to Bible study on the phone or iPad.  

 

Bible Software has come a long way growing as the power of desktop computers grow.  Yet it looks like mobile Bible computing has been left in the dust.  Modern iPads and iPhones certainly have the memory and the power and the speed to handle multiple books in a tabbed interface, yet it does not exist.  As the world becomes more mobile, Accordance and Logos/Faithlife need to step up and bring desktop functionality to the mobile world.

 

https://pastormichaelsthoughts.blogspot.com/2017/07/thoughts-on-mobile-bible-software.html

[jhancock61]

I have been using various Bible Software since the early days of existence. In my opinion, Accordance provides a robust experience for me with the Mobile App and the Desktop version. I cannot comment on other present day software because I exclusively use Accordance at this time.

 

I do agree that Accordance needs to add more features for the iPad version. Sadly, the iPad version seems to have the exact same features as the iPhone. 

 

For my use as a lay person, Accordance is a great resource.

[ukfraser]

Pastor michael

Part of me agrees with you, i have major frustration with a couple of the design descisions taken by the accordance team for their ios app and really think they should have been sorted by now and those frustrations are well documented in the new features.

 

However, i have been using accordance ios for ever since i got an ipad 2 back in june 2011 and have used it daily ever since. I have probably downloaded all the bible softwares for mobile devices since and most have only stayed on my device for about half an hour. Other i kept just didnt get used and have gradually been deleted. I have niv cultural backgrounds which is virtually unusable because the search doesnt work on the study part and good news which i keep because of the illustrations. I changed from an android phone to an iphone so i could use accordance.

 

Accordance has interlinear.

Accordance has the pop up so you can see the underlying word and then wander off to see its use or explore it in lexicons

You can quickly change translation and commentaries in the two panes

You can play audio

You have image rich resources

The search is virtually instantaneous in any resource and can be so refined to title, content etc

It is great for original language studies

It is rock solid

The developers are active on the forum.

 

Yes i want more from accordance, but i wouldnt want to be without it and when my ipad 2 pretended to die, i rushed out and bought a pro because accordance and forScore are the two apps i am using daily. To such an extent i only boot my mbp up once a week.

 

accordance ios leaves my previous windows bible software a distant view in the rear view mirror.

 

And accordance ios is free and comes with great resources such as a tagged esv.

 

Yes, many other apps are in a sad state but accordance shines.

[Solly]

It would be really nice if one could choose the operating system to place onto an iPad pro—iOS or macOS. By placing iOS on all 'mobile' devices, Apple has produced a less than what is really possible experience on the iPad Pro. One may view an attempt to get around this device limiting approach by current hardware promoted by Microsoft and Windows 10. I have not had personal experience with those slate products, but I know folks who are delighted by their function. Back in 1983, when I purchased my first personally owned computing system, the wisdom presented to a purchaser was to define the task, select the best software to accomplish that task, select the operating system that works with the chosen software, and then choose the hardware as the final stage.  This approach guided me in purchasing a personal system (KayPro II with the Perfect Series software) that released me from bondage to the employer owned equipment and their decisions on what was best for the employee. 

 

Yes, I think the iPad Pro is a wonderful device if and only if it will allow one to accomplish the task one is attempting. The advice from the early personal computing era still applies. It is why I have operating systems by Digital Research, Microsoft, and Apple on currently used hardware. I also use flavors of BSD, Linux, Android, and WebOS on other hardware. I have specific tools for specific tasks. No, the great variety of systems do not confuse me, because they all operate in a very similar way. One may use a command line, another a graphical interface, and command syntax varies, but file manipulation is file manipulation whether done by PIP or Finder. Waiting for a system to change to my preferences has never been a satisfactory experience for me. I will still apply the old 1980's advice on technology purchase decision making.

 

May your chosen tool accomplish your goals,

Joseph

[Michel Gilbert]

Hi Solly,

 

I couldn't have said it better myself. When I got my first IBM compatible 8086 in 1989, I got the exact same advice. And now, I have/use several Windows versions, Linux, OSX, iOS, Android, and Blackberry. It's relatively easy/simple to learn each file system, and how to install, open, and delete programs/apps on each. And after that, they are all basically the same, with the same major programs installed on each.

 

I do think Michael brings up something Acc should consider. I too wish that Acc would expand their capabilities for iOS on iPad. A good place to start would be adding more Tabs. I know I really enjoy more tabs in PDF Expert and GoodReader. And I think Acc Mobile should at least function as an eReader on par with PDF apps. But of course, it is their decision. And, I won't wait for them to implement this in the meantime.

 

Rick has said a few times that Apple may be planning to replace OSX with iOS. If he is correct, and there are some signs he may be, then the majority of Mac users will eventually be iOS users, including most Accordance users. So I think it would be to Acc's advantage to begin expanding iPad capabilities, starting with more tabs.

 

Regards,

 

Michel

 

Edit: I also think Chromebooks are becoming more attractive to Bible students, so it would be advantageous to offer more tabs to attract those Android users. If the coming Acc Android app is on par with the iOS one, and has appeared by the time I have to replace my iPad, I'll probably switch to a dual boot touchscreen Chromebook with Linux, and have Acc Mobile on Android, and presumably the same Acc desktop functionality I presently have on my Ubuntu ASUS laptop.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Michel Gilbert

[Solly]

...

 

Rick has said a few times that Apple may be planning to replace OSX with iOS. If he is correct, and there are some signs he may be, then the majority of Mac users will eventually be iOS users, including most Accordance users. So I think it would be to Acc's advantage to begin expanding iPad capabilities, starting with more tabs.

 

...

Michel, my desire is that iOS become more like macOS. However, as Han Solo was fond of stating, "I have a bad feeling about this!" For this reason I am happy to have the Accordance system on multiple platforms. Of course VirtualBox permits even more possible solutions. Just planning for the future as I don my tin foil hat. 

[Timothy Jenney]

Solly,

 

I too have been frustrated with Apple's unwillingness to port more of Mac OSX to iOS. I imagine that's particularly painful for those that have an iPad Pro. It would be wonderful for us here at Accordance, because we'd have an easier time achieving parity between our mobile and computer apps.

 

However, if you are willing to venture onto the "dark side," you can do that now. Just buy any tablet computer that runs the full version of Windows. The computer version of Accordance for Windows will run on it. It will have all the features you've come to know and love.

 

Rick Mansfield regularly posts on mobile computing in these forums. I know he has posted his recommendations for tablet computers, including the minimum features needed to run Accordance properly. If I remember, a tablet with those features can be had for under $300.

[Rich]

 

Rick has said a few times that Apple may be planning to replace OSX with iOS. If he is correct, and there are some signs he may be, then the majority of Mac users will eventually be iOS users, including most Accordance users. So I think it would be to Acc's advantage to begin expanding iPad capabilities, starting with more tabs.

 

 

 

 

As a Mac and iOS developer since the mid-2000s, I find it very unlikely that the Mac /  iOS divide will disappear fully any time in the remotest near term.  Steve Jobs noted once the difference between "cars and trucks" and how we need both (although at the time, I believe he was referring to desktops and laptops) — the iPad being the computing variant of the car, and the Mac being the truck in modern times.  While I expect that many features of both will intermix and the lines will continue to become further blurred, at the core, these two platforms have some very large technical and user experience differences, most specifically their primary input methods, but also Apple's very rigid philosophy (closed versus open platforms — although I imagine if they could stuff the "open" part of Mac's back into the box, they would).  Unlike Microsoft, which chose the opposite philosophy and put a desktop OS on a tablet, Apple has very clearly delineated that they are not the same and have shown few signs (and specifically stated that they would not) merge the two.   It feels like some day that the hardware and capability may become so blurred that Apple will change this philosophy, but it doesn't seem likely anytime soon (obviously, an iPad Pro's hardware is on par with modern laptop hardware).

 

All that said, I would love more "pro" features in the iPad variant of Accordance.  With an iPad Pro, I have the landscape and power to do some desktop style functionality on an iPad, and I would love to do that with a platform that's wonderfully mobile and personal.  I don't generally take my MacBook Pro to a study group meeting or home group, but I do take my iPad.  My needs are definitely not as complex as when sitting at my desk, but I would still enjoy having more functionality than what is currently available (more parallels than the current two-pane limitation, a bottom info pane, etc.).   Also, most of the recent concerns that people have with more functionality in specific apps on the iPad generally aren't limitations of the operating system, outside the ability to just run Mac software on an iPad, which seems like a horrible idea from a practical standpoint.   That said, I understand the complexities and competing priorities in a software development house, particularly when mobile platforms have not been great for monetizing to cover the developmental costs.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Rich

[ukfraser]

Dr j, when the ipad first came out, i couldnt see the point of them until i was given one.

 

when my ipad pretended to die, i considered a surface pro. There is something about the ipad & pro. Its dimensions and weight means it can be held comfortably in one hand for long periods. The surface pro would be brilliant but i find it a bit heavy and so apart from the touch screen, not drawn over having my mbp on my lap. Its just that they take an age to boot up compared to the ipad and battery doesnt last as long and currently my daughter cat is using my lap and wouldnt appreciate the mbp competition.

 

For me, The downside of reduced functionality of iOS far outweighs the benefits of the physical size.

 

I think we all want greater parity between operating systems and an opportunity was missed when the pro was launched, but despite its faults, iOS accordance is still streets ahead of zondervans pradis which was about the same price as the full fat accordance starter but came with a rubbish interface and limited functionality when compared to accordance. Even accordance v8 was a real eye opener for me.

 

As to cost, rick posted this on another recent thread

 

http://www.modbook.com/modbookpro

Edited July 27, 2017 by ukfraser

[Michel Gilbert]

Hi Rich,

 

I appreciate your comments. I don't know if iOS will replace OSX, or whether they will just merge a bit more and blur some more distinctions. What I do think though, is that as iOS productivity capabilities increase towards desktop levels, e.g., its Unicode word processing capabilities blow Android out of the water at the moment, and as Apple implements more features to undergird the iPad Pro as a desktop laptop replacement, that more people will in fact use it instead of a laptop. In that case, and for those users, it would be to Acc's advantage to cater to them. And this will happen irrespective of whether iOS replaces OSX.

 

I'm a relatively new Mac user, and I'm not a programmer. I'm just a user who can be productive on an iPad, and if Acc implemented a multiple tab feature, and the construct search, the iPad Pro could replace a laptop for me.

 

Regards,

 

Michel

 

Edited: desktop

Edited July 27, 2017 by Michel Gilbert

[Solly]

Dr. J,

 

Indeed, a tablet computer is a solution that currently works, and that is a possibility for me in the future. At this moment I am a happy camper with my hardware/software combinations and wish to take a break from Windows. I will rethink things when Vader, I mean Microsoft, ends support for Win 7 in a few years. ;-) Certainly the cost of a tablet computer is not prohibitive and the only objection I have at the moment is some concern about the current philosophy on gathering user metrics. Yes, I wear my tin foil more often lately. 

 

Shalom,

Joseph

[Julia Falling]

If we could get 4 panes (or even 3) on an iPad I would be thrilled.  Yeah, Construct Search would be nice.  But all the searches we can already do are wonderful – my husband and I both use iAccord daily and extensively.

 

However, and it's a big however, there are things that just cannot be easily done, or done at all, on a small screen – not on a phone or even a laptop (or the big iPad Pro) – I use my MacBook Air plugged into a 27" monitor and use every square inch of real estate.  This set-up is not portable.  I have lots of saved workspaces – almost all are multi-tab and many are multi-zone.

 

I have been using iAccord since it was released.  We have had steady improvements in functionality.  The single function I want most is more panes, but I'm sure that will be implemented in time.  I can wait.  I really am a happy, satisfied iAccord user.  Is the app perfect?  No.  Will it ever be perfect?  No.  Will it continue to improve?  About that I have no doubts at all.

[Daniel Francis]

I would even be happy to be able to have two panes for all books at this point.

 

-dan

 

PS: For the most part I like what Accordance and Faithlife have to offer.. both could use many improvements, as some have mentioned above. In the FL world its lack of adequate functionality offline is a major complaint to me, where as in the ACC world INFO pane is my top wish. 

[Michel Gilbert]

Hi Julia,

 

I agree. An iPad Pro laptop replacement wouldn't replace my desktop(s). But I think that some will use iPads without a laptop or desktop.

 

I know I have a unique workflow, which hardly anyone else shares. I would only replace an iPad with something else for the Construct Search, which is critical to my work. I love my iPad, the Syntax Database even more.

 

Regards,

 

Michel

[Julia Falling]

Hi Julia,

 

I agree. An iPad Pro laptop replacement wouldn't replace my desktop(s). But I think that some will use iPads without a laptop or desktop.

 

I know I have a unique workflow, which hardly anyone else shares. I would only replace an iPad with something else for the Construct Search, which is critical to my work. I love my iPad, the Syntax Database even more.

 

Regards,

 

Michel

 

Michael Michel – I do Construct Searches, and spend time regularly investigating textual variants (Greek only).  I'm fine without the Construct searches on the iPad, but find doing textual stuff on an iPad, because of the limited space, frustrating.  A little better with full functionality on the MBA.  Great with the MBA + 27" monitor.  

 

I would really like to be able to have an English version, original language text, User Notes plus another tool or text visible on my iPad Pro at the same time.  The iPad screen is big enough to accommodate 4 panes, I think.   (I currently have the 9.7" Pro, but will probably upgrade to the 10.5 next year.  The larger Pro is just too big for the way I use my iPad.)

 

Frankly, we're all spoiled!

 

EDIT:  Sorry about the misspelling of your name, Michel.  My fingers seem to be programmed for the alternate spelling!

Edited July 28, 2017 by Julia Falling

[ukfraser]

Frankly, we're all spoiled!

Oh yes!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Λύχνις Δαν]

I've felt for a long time that the size of the screen and the size of the device must be disconnected from one another. I'm not actually kidding but the tech doesn't currently exist - at least not outside any lab.

 

Thx

D

[Solly]

Spoiled indeed! I remember the DOS based product crated by Larry Pierce, and thought it was so wonderful at the time. Oh, it still works, but the modern tools are so much friendlier, and when I found Gill's Exposition of the NT and OT in the User Tools of Accordance Exchange, I put that DOS based software in the archives. I like to be spoiled—er, more productive.

 

Shalom,

Joseph

[Michel Gilbert]

To return to Michael's original post, it was good that he placed it in Feature Requests. I think there is a consensus on adding another pane or two. But I also think the consensus is that the present limit of two panes does not reflect an overall sad state of affairs in iOS Acc.

 

Regards,

 

Michel

[Daniel Francis]

I remember the DOS based product crated by Larry Pierce, and thought it was so wonderful at the time.

 

Never had that but did use Godspeed Bible Search Program by Kingdom Age Software of Brian G. Moore it was amazingly fast and could run the NT off a low density floppy.  I was shocked to find googling it that it is still available. it was a wonderful program for sure. I know L.P. program eventually became known as OnlineBible and I used the mac variant for years and indeed have it still installed on my MBP although it sees very little use.

 

-dan

[R. Mansfield]

Overall, I think this is a helpful discussion begun by Michael, though I would encourage him to come back and interact a bit with some of the responses. 

 

Although I work for Accordance, don't look at my message here as an "official response" as much as just further conversation from someone who has been an Accordance user since the 90s. One of the programmers or perhaps someone in senior administration could offer something official, although I'm not certain it's necessary.

 

I can say that these kinds of suggestions for more than two panes have been part of of ongoing internal (and even external) discussions. There's no conspiracy to limit the mobile experience to give favor to the legacy platforms. It's just a very different beast and takes a bit longer to get an entirely different codebase on a platform, that uses different kinds of input, up to speed with software that's been around for 25 years. And as I like to point out, Bible software in general, and certainly Accordance in particular, is much more complex and allows for many more tasks than most of the other applications on one's device--whether legacy or mobile. That is, there's a big difference in what Accordance does on the iPad compared to even something like the very polished Microsoft Word and Excel apps now available for iOS (and Android). 

 

I, too, had OliveTree's app on my Palm device back in the day. I even had the Gramcord Greek NT from Accordance that was a joint venture with OliveTree for it. Other than the two-pane issue, I can't agree that "nothing has really changed in almost 20 years"; and I especially would take issue with "the functionality of these mobile apps seems stalled." Both of these statements seem hyperbolic. Bible software is much more capable today than those early readers 20 years ago. If I have to, I can dig my Palm Treo out of a drawer to prove it, but I really don't think that's necessary.

 

In the third post of this thread, Fraser listed a number of features in Accordance Mobile that would have been nearly inconceivable from a development perspective back in the days when we were all using Bible software on our Palm, WindowsCE, and Newton devices. Although mobile Bible apps may not have progressed as quickly as we all might've liked, I believe the limit to two panes has primarily been dictated by screen size and processing power until recently. Now we have bigger screens. My iPad Pro is 12.9"--a larger screen than Apple's 11" MacBook. And the processor in it is capable of editing multiple 4K video streams at the same time (something I would definitely not recommend trying on the Core m MacBook). 

 

I expect we will see software, including Accordance Mobile, continuing to leverage both larger screens and more powerful processors to add advanced features that we take for granted now in Windows or Mac. The Affinity Photo app for the iPad is the first of what I would consider the next stage for mobile computing. It's coming--not as quickly as we might like--but it will get here. 

 

Again, as preface to my next few sentences, I remind anyone reading this that I'm not a programmer. When we talk about a tabbed interface in iOS, which is what would be needed in Accordance Mobile for something like Constructs or to perform Infer searches, I don't know if Apple provides this in their toolkit or if it would have to be created from scratch. I mentioned the other day in another thread that I see tabs in Safari for iOS as well as GoodReader. The ones in GoodReader are not very "good" (pun intended), and I assume they are homegrown. I notice that even programs like MS Word or Excel (or the Apple equivalent of Pages and Numbers) for iOS only allow ONE document to be open at once. That's pretty frustrating when you need to put content side by side; yes, there are ways around it, but no one likes having to do that. Just like you can put two Bible applications side by side on an iPad Pro to accommodate four panes at a time (I've done it!), but we really don't want to have to do that. But if you compare Accordance Mobile to MS Word or Excel, at least we don't limit you to one title in your Accordance library! In fact, with popup Instant Details and User Note editing, we've essentially allowed for three panes, if but for limited instances. 

 

Regardless, no one at Accordance (and I guess I have to assume for the other guys too) is sitting around thinking we've done everything we can do for the software and the platform. The ability to do more has only truly presented itself in the last couple of years. 

 

Stay tuned. 

 

[One more thing--my name was mentioned in some of the posts above in regard to my previous statements about legacy vs. mobile platforms (the whole truck vs. car thing). Although I'm tempted to comment on that here, I'll save that for another time, perhaps in a different discussion.]

[Michel Gilbert]

Hi Rick,

Excellent post.

I didn’t intend to put you on the spot, and so I apologize. My main point was that some people have already replaced their laptops with iPad Pros (I know some), and I think others will in the future, irrespective of whether iOS replaces OSX, or just some of their features merge. So, it was just another argument that Acc should take advantage of the screen size and processing power of the iPad Pro. I agree with you that they will.

Regards,

Michel

[Daniel Francis]

I, too, had OliveTree's app on my Palm device back in the day. I even had the Gramcord Greek NT from Accordance that was a joint venture with OliveTree for it. Other than the two-pane issue, I can't agree that "nothing has really changed in almost 20 years"

 

Olivetree for the palm allowed 3 panes, wasn't great but i do remember it... But like I said I just really want a Bible open while I am reading a book. that will make me happy. right now it is the two device option for most comfortable reading... book on iPad and phone running Bible although a few times I have split screened OT BibleReader but would be nice to keep it all in house....

 

-dan

Edited July 28, 2017 by Daniel Francis

[Daniel Francis]

This is my less than ideal solution.

 

 

-dan

Edited July 28, 2017 by Daniel Francis

[R. Mansfield]

I didn’t intend to put you on the spot, and so I apologize. My main point was that some people have already replaced their laptops with iPad Pros (I know some), and I think others will in the future, irrespective of whether iOS replaces OSX, or just some of their features merge. So, it was just another argument that Acc should take advantage of the screen size and processing power of the iPad Pro. I agree with you that they will.

 

Sorry, Michel. I may have miscommunicated. I didn't feel put on the spot. I just felt like I had written enough on that post, and I could easily write just as much or longer on the subject of legacy vs. mobile platforms. I didn't want that subject to take away from what I had just written.