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Set Hebrew to display as unpointed text


Michel Gilbert
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Hi Fabian,

 

Thanks.

 

I have the HB with Hebrew verse numbers on the right in right to left text (א,א , etc.). At this very moment I'm searching the Help Files to see if there is a way to export the HB book by book, and line by line with the verse numbers in English at the beginning of each line. Do you happen to know how to do this also? I'll keep searching in the meantime.

 

Regards,

 

Michel

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Hi again,

 

I still can't intuit how to export more than I can select, and I can't find out how in the Help Files so far.

 

Just as a point of interest, there is a kind of culture shock moving from Windows to Mac or a Mac-like Program. For instance, I could easily intuit how to export the entire HB in BW10, line by line with English versification on the left. See screenshot:

 

post-32543-0-35267300-1447439563_thumb.png

 

It actually took less than a minute to do this using Tools>Importing/Exporting Information>Export Database, select and press OK.

 

post-32543-0-72591100-1447439582_thumb.png

 

Can this be done in Acc?

 

Regards,

 

Michel

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No, sorry, we deliberately prevent the export of entire texts, in order to protect the rights of the copyright holders.

 

Hi,

 

I was only asking regarding the unpointed Hebrew Bible text. Who owns the copyright on that?

 

Regards,

 

Michel

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Hey Michel,

 

  Accordance can run pretty much any text of the bible (I suspect actually any corpora) verse by verse in parallel with another, given consistency of verse numbering between the texts. It just makes sure the verses displayed in the parallel panes are the same ones. There are tricks about OG verses MT numbering which I ran into with the Sinaiticus that I did. But now with 11.1 there have been enhancements to UBs in this area and I have not yet tried them out.

 

  Regarding unpointed text. I took my sample of unpointed Hebrew which I did earlier in this thread from tanakh.us. This is where I got the Jonah fragment I did. I can send you example files on how to do this but not until weeks end at the earliest. I am on the road and I did this on the Mac where its easier to script (at least for me). http://tanach.us/Pages/Technical.htmlhas a variety of files. Its all under creative commons though with some rights reserved. Their license page is : http://tanakh.us/License.html.

 

  As to bible importing into Acc the process is well documented. There have just been substantial updates to user bibles in 11.1. I haven't done a serious import into Acc since those changes. UB format is documented and it's a very simple format in principle - a book:chapter:verse number reference at the beginning of the line followed by the entire verse's text on that line. Then are special rules for skipping books (no mention needs to be made), chapters (you include ch:vers1 reference on a blank line for each such), and verses. Check out http://accordancefiles2.com/helpfiles/OSX11/Default.htm#topics/05_dd/importing_bibles.htm%3FTocPath%3DDigging%2520Deeper|Importing%2520Bibles|_____1and the preparing the text information. It explains all this.

 

Thx

D


Hey Fabian, what software is that you're showing there ?

 

Thx

D

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Daniel

While you ask http://www.eloquent-bible-study.eufrom a German developer. Ex Macsword.

 

Text is:

Module name: WLC

 

Description: Westminster Leningrad Codex

 

Type: Biblical Texts

 

Language: he

 

Version: 1.9

 

Versification: Leningrad

 

About: 

This text began as an electronic transcription by Whitaker and Parunak of the 1983 printed edition of Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia (BHS). The transcription is called the Michigan-Claremont electronic text and was archived at the Oxford Text Archive (OTA) in 1987. Since that time, the text has been modified to conform to the photo-facsimile of the Leningrad Codex, Firkovich B19A, residing at the Russian National Library, St. Petersberg; hence the change of name. This version contains all 6 of the textual elements of the OTA document: consonants, vowels, cantillation marks, "paragraph" (pe, samekh) markers, and ketiv-qere variants. Morphological divisions have been added.

 

 

Greetings

 

Fabian

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Hi,

 

Here is my first attempt at a Paleo Hebrew Bible (PHB):

 

post-32543-0-89778100-1447481086_thumb.png

 

Since this is for the 10th century, I deleted most of the vowel letters. Those remaining will have to be deleted manually. Also, some consonants will have to be put back in. I might just copy and paste and edit in the Notes.

 

I will do a 7th century PHB with all the vowel letters. If it doesn't break any copyright laws, I'll post it on the Exchange. Helen, please advise.

 

Thanks everyone for your help.

 

Regards,

 

Michel 

Edited by Michel Gilbert
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The MT-LXX Interlinear Database lets the user create an Interlinear display of their installed Hebrew and Septuagint texts. It allows the user to display the Greek Septuagint text in an Interlinear with the morphologically tagged Hebrew Masoretic text, and the Hebrew text in an Interlinear with the morphologically tagged LXX. It requires at least one tagged text. If only the LXX is tagged, only the unpointed Hebrew text will be displayed.

 

From the Store. Underlined part is from me. I didn't tested it.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian

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Hi,

 

My second attempt:

 

post-32543-0-20799600-1447556532_thumb.png

 

I know I'm not breaking copyright laws for my own use. Besides, I've purchased six hard cover BHS/MTs, a hardcover Rabbinic Bible, a softcover JPS Tanakh, electronic BHS/MTs in Gramcord, Linguist's Software, Logos, SESB, Accordance, BW, including MS LB19, Bar Ilan Responsa, Bar Ilan Classics Ed, Davka, and others, more than twenty in all.

 

But, would I break copyright laws if I post an Unpointed MT and PHB 7th/6th BCE User Bible on the Exchange? Those interested could use their own Unicode fonts for them.

 

Regards,

 

Michel

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However it happens, I love the idea of an unpointed MT in Accordance. (Much as I struggle to read it! Which is why I'd like it....)

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Hi Michel,

 

  Regarding the exchange. The policy is that the one who posts something is responsible for ensuring, as best they can, that they are using the source material within licensed use, and not infringing copyright. To that end you'll need to find out who or what validly holds license to the thing you are using and then inquire. The reason I have pointed to tanakh.us is for the reason that they describe a basically very liberal license. If you obtain the source material elsewhere you'll have to contact or examine the licensing they provide. If you have any doubts a quick email can sort out whether what you plan to do is within licensed use. On the exchange there is a proforma email that you can use for such inquiries. There are useful comments about this and about posting items at : http://www.accordancefiles1.com/exchange/instruct.htm.

 

Thx

D

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Hi,

 

I tried twice to post an unpointed Hebrew Bible on the Exchange. After it uploads 100% I get this screen:

 

post-32543-0-26827900-1447647343_thumb.png

 

Am I doing something wrong?

 

Thanks, and regards,

 

Michel

 

Edit: Actually, I just got an email from Ken saying he would post it in the next couple of days.

 

It's an unpointed Hebrew Bible (WLC) that can be run parallel to a tagged Bible. Use either an Aramaic square font like Ezra SIL, SBL Hebrew, etc., or a Paleo-Hebrew font like Paleo-Hebrew Lachish, etc.

Edited by Michel Gilbert
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Just pulled this from the exchange - very nice. I'll have to play with fonts yet - but it runs very nicely in parallel with HMT-W4 and it came straight up on Windows. Very nice !

 

Many thanx Michel.

D

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Hi Daniel,

 

It was my pleasure.

 

It was a good day for Hebrew: the Unpointed HB works well (thanks Ken), Acc 11.1.1 came out and the Syntax Module was improved in it, and the books Dr. Holmstedt submitted yesterday (see  http://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/16181-progress/?do=findComment&comment=83336 ) are in Content Updates today.

 

Can it get any better? I might not get any sleep tonight.  :)

 

Regards,

 

Michel

Edited by Michel Gilbert
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Hi,

 

Just to clarify, Unicode Paleo-Hebrew fonts display the same Paleo-Hebrew consonant for the medial/final form pairs, e.g., כ and ך both display as post-32543-0-02374500-1447818967.png in the font Paleo-Hebrew Lachish. Since all the vowel letters may have been written in a late 6th BCE Bible (all final ones for sure, all medial ones perhaps), you can select a Paleo-Hebrew font like Lachish for an unpointed MT and display a close approximation of a late 6th BCE text.

 

You can't use this kind of unpointed HB for a close approximation of a 10th BCE text (for parts that may be that old). Most of the vowel letters would need to be taken out. When I posted my first and second attempts, I started with a HB with vowels and I used macros to take out vowel letters and everything else. Anyone who can read those Proto or Paleo posts can see that I had different results the second time. (Overall though, the second attempt was better for the entire HB). Since I have to do some research, and then check every line (of the relevant parts of the Bible), I can't promise that sort of text soon, if ever. Even if I did, I would use one Unicode value for כ/ך , one for מ/ם , etc., so one couldn't switch to a Unicode Aramaic square font, e.g., Ezra SIL or SBL Hebrew, and display the final forms.

 

Regarding the format, I couldn't figure out how to display the verses right to left, which I would have preferred. Display as paragraph also doesn't work in Acc - the lines don't wrap correctly. If anyone knows how to fix either of these, I'll send you the .txt file, you could fix it, and I'll re-post it.

 

Also, full disclosure, I didn't read the entire unpointed HB to check for errors before I posted it. Send me a PM if you find an error and I'll fix it and re-post it.

 

Regards,

 

Michel

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Always happy to help the unpointed-Hebrew-starved masses  :blink:

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Thanx for the details Michel - I was nearly going to ask last night.

 

Regarding RTL in a User Bible. The text it self is RTL (so it appears to me with your UHB in parallel with HMT-W4) but the line breaks don't then start the next line over at the right hand end, rather they are left justified. In addition the verse refs are also not on the right. I hit a similar issue and opened a forum topic on it during beta testing. The response was that it was a known limitation. Hopefully interest in RTL User Bibles might lead to an enhancement.

 

Thx

D

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 Hopefully interest in RTL User Bibles might lead to an enhancement.

 

Thx

D

 

+1 Indeed! It would be wonderful if Accordance were to provide full support for RTL User Bibles.

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If, you own a licence for the Samaritan Pentateuch 

then you have access to at least one text that is Ktiv hasar niqqud (unpointed = כתיב חסר ניקוד  or  כתיב מלא)

 

post-31817-0-70614500-1447836737_thumb.png

 

there are also a few more:

http://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/17226-unpointed-hebrew-texts-in-accordance/

Edited by bkMitchell
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Thanx for the details Michel - I was nearly going to ask last night.

 

Regarding RTL in a User Bible. The text it self is RTL (so it appears to me with your UHB in parallel with HMT-W4) but the line breaks don't then start the next line over at the right hand end, rather they are left justified. In addition the verse refs are also not on the right. I hit a similar issue and opened a forum topic on it during beta testing. The response was that it was a known limitation. Hopefully interest in RTL User Bibles might lead to an enhancement.

 

Thx

D

 

Hi Daniel,

 

Yes, I meant I preferred the rtl text to be right justified, versification on the right side, and paragraphs - just like the tagged HB in Accordance.

 

Thanks for the information - that it is a current limitation. It seems though that Acc would be able to make this kind of User Bible!

 

In the interests of full disclosure, I'm still cutting wood all day, I'm exhausted at night, and a bit muddled in my thinking, so someone else has to clarify my clarifications.

 

Regards,

 

Michel

 

If, you own a licence for the Samaritan Pentateuch 

then you have access to at least one text that is Ktiv hasar niqqud (unpointed = כתיב חסר ניקוד  or  כתיב מלא)

 

http://www.accordancebible.com/forums/public/style_images/master/attachicon.gifunpointed text.png

 

there are also a few more:

http://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/17226-unpointed-hebrew-texts-in-accordance/

 

Hi bk,

 

I agree that the unpointed SP would be a good place to start, and I especially like the right justification, versification, and paragraph style.

 

But I'm not sure how many of us would be willing to pay that much, even for the entire HB. I would pay a nominal fee for an untagged HB in the same format as Acc's tagged one, as long as I could change the font like in a User Bible.

 

Regards,

 

Michel

Edited by Michel Gilbert
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I agree that the unpointed SP would be a good place to start, and I especially like the right justification, versification, and paragraph style.

Yeah, I think it is very affordable and there is a chance some may have it already.

 

 

I would pay a nominal fee for an untagged HB in the same format as Acc's tagged one, as long as I could change the font like in a User Bible.

 

I am not sure but it is my guess that OakTree Accordance's current Hebrew Bible texts are probably complied, formatted, and maintained in something similar to the CCAT (ASCII) Beta Code with the Hebrew fonts being simply mapped over the ASCII characters. If, that is true this would make it difficult for their Hebrew texts to switch to different Unicode Hebrew font styles. And, would require conversion of some sort. 

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