Rahlfs Psa. 48:10 ἐκόπασεν ?

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Hi ya,

 

  I ran into this this evening. In context it doesn't make much sense and it seems that neither NETS nor Brenton translate this word as you would expect : to stop, cease or rest. They rather translate as toiling forever.

 

10     καὶ ἐκόπασεν εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα καὶ ζήσεται εἰς τέλος,
    ὅτι οὐκ ὄψεται καταφθοράν, ὅταν ἴδῃ σοφοὺς ἀποθνῄσκοντας

 

  It took me a while to work out that the problem is that verb may be wrong. In Sinaiticus the passage in Greek is :

 

Psa. 49:10  (Sin. 48:10) και εκοπιαϲεν ειϲ τον αιωνα και ζηϲεται ειϲ τελοϲ

 

  This is κοπιαω which translates nicely to "toil, work" etc.

 

  So the questions is these:

 

  1. Is the print edition of Rahlfs like this, that is does it have ἐκόπασεν ?

  2. What does Gottingen say ?

 

  Thanx as always, and chin up, we'll be a third of the way through by next w/e

 

Thx

D

[Ken Simpson]

No joy in Göttingen for you Daniel

 

‘καὶ ἐκόπασεν εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα καὶ ζήσεται εἰς τέλος, ὅτι οὐκ ὄψεται καταφθοράν, ὅταν ἴδῃ σοφοὺς ἀποθνῄσκοντας.’ Psalms 48:10 LXXG-PS-ODES

 

as you can see, the iota is absent.

 

The print version of Brenton is very different - see attachment - the image can be seen here

 

 

Sorry, don’t have the print of Ralf's

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Thanx for that Ken. Interesting that Gottingen doesn't seem to comment on the variants here. Hmmm.....

I have Brenton in print and yes it is different. He breaks up the sentences a bit differently from Rahlfs too.

The original Rahlfs print text is really mostly interesting in confirming that the Accordance Rahlfs module is true to the print edition. Quite likely that it is given Gottingen I would think.

I was hoping the Vaticanus  might offer an opinion but it's hard to search that website for an individual Psalm. Can't find a full transcription of it. I'll have to look more later.

 

Thx

D
 

[Michel Gilbert]

 

 

  1. Is the print edition of Rahlfs like this, that is does it have ἐκόπασεν ?

 

Hi Daniel,

 

- Rahlfs' print ed, ἐκόπασεν

            - apparatus εκοπασεν     -πιασεν mss.

 

Edit: I found a lexical entry for κοπάζω , "to grow weary," which approximates "toiling."

 

κοπάζω (< κόπος), [in LXX: Ge 8:1, Es 2:1; 7:10 (שׁכךְ), Ru 1:18, al. (הדל), Jh 1:11, 12 (שׁתק), al.;] to grow weary; of the wind (Hdt., Jh., l.c.), to abate, cease raging: Mt 14:32, Mk 4:39, 6:51.†

(Abbott-Smith, Manual Greek Lexicon of the NT)

 

Not saying I agree with this definition. I don't have time to check the references in Herodotus.

 

 

Regards,

 

Michel

Edited April 12, 2015 by Michel Gilbert

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Thanx Michel, thanks for this. Yes the weary thing makes sense enough but doesn't work so well in context in translations. I need more Hebrew - WIP - but the MT-LXX Parallel seems to indicate that the κοπαζω may capture the Hebrew better. I'll have to play with this one a bit more.

 

which seems to match the Ruth reference in your lexicon.

 

Such a small thing - just one iota Oh well ....

 

More later when I've had a chance to digest this a bit more.

 

But at least I don't need to log a correction on the LXX module.

 

thx

D

Edited April 13, 2015 by Daniel Semler

[Boni]

I also wanted to point out Rahlfs' apparatus which notes, that this reading is an emendation against all manuscripts.

 

Daniel: Have a look at

http://digi.vatlib.it/view/MSS_Vat.gr.1209/0001?page_query=653&navmode=struct&action=pagesearch&sid=e4cde55a9028f1a0d4e7305d60848351

 

for the Vaticanus: Right column, quite near the bottom.

 

Boni

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Boni, thanx for this. I had a quick look there yesterday but without a verse lookup capability it would have taken me ages to find this. Thank you for finding this.

I have a copy of the Rahlf's apparatus in PDF but to be honest I've never learned much about reading apparatuses. Your statement above though is a little ambiguous to me : do you mean that κοπαζω is the emended version or that κοπιαζω is ? Just trying to be clear. I do see in Vaticanus that it agrees here with Sinaiticus, (and the Brenton diglot) in rendering it κοπιαζω.

 

 

Thx

D

 

[Boni]

Hi Daniel,

Rahlfs says that all manuscrips have εκοπιασεν. Because of comparable usage in Iud and so on, Joannes Ernestus Grabe read εκοπασεν. That's all about it.

 

Psalmi 48:10a εκοπασεν Gra. (cf. Iud. 15:7; 20:28 A. Ruth 1:18, Am. 7:5)] -πιασεν mss.

 

I haven't checked the details, but you can get the book online, I think: http://books.google.de/books/about/Vetus_testamentum_juxta_septuaginta_inte.html?id=a79IAAAAcAAJ&redir_esc=y

 

Boni

[Boni]

Another link: https://archive.org/details/hpalaiadiathkkat00grab

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Ah ok,

Thanx again. D

[Ken Simpson]

Daniel - did you see that in LSJ   is 

 

κοπάζω, aor. ἐκόπασα (v. infr.): pf. κεκόπακα Hsch. :—grow weary, τοῦ πολέμου LXX

 

That seems to fit with the Brenton...doesn’t it?

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Hey Ken,

  Yes I saw that. I've prepared a few notes on this and I'll cut them in below. It will perhaps help to fill out the question a bit. In any case I think I can see how these might be seen to be adequately similar in a sense, noted below, but I'm still puzzled by why such a change might have come in. I rather suspect Hebrew text influence given the bit I found in the MT-LXX comparison. Anyhow, I'm not a text critic and this is a TC issue. But for what it may be worth here is what I have :

 

 

So let's look at the Greek as per the LXX module and the English per LXX-B

 

 

LXX:

οὐ δώσει τῷ θεῷ ἐξίλασμα αὐτοῦ

9 καὶ τὴν τιμὴν τῆς λυτρώσεως τῆς ψυχῆς αὐτοῦ.

10 καὶ ἐκόπασεν εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα καὶ ζήσεται εἰς τέλος,

ὅτι οὐκ ὄψεται καταφθοράν, ὅταν ἴδῃ σοφοὺς ἀποθνῄσκοντας.

 

LXX-B:

Psa. 48:8 or the price of the redemption of his soul, though he labour for ever,

Psa. 48:9 and live to the end, so that he should not see corruption.

 

Brenton's translation here of ἐκόπασεν would appear to be “labour” in “though he labour forever”. Allowing καὶ for the concessive “though” (perhaps from “even if” for καὶ) we are left with a bit of a problem in context. “Grow weary” is a reasonable translation in some contexts perhaps, but here if one accepts the basic plot of Brenton's translation, which I would approximate as “a man does not give to God the price of the redemption of his soul even if he should labour at it forever”. This is made clearer pulling in verse 8b. So Brenton's source text punctuation differs from the LXX module itself also, which enables him to translate as he does.

 

A more direct translation of the above LXX would lead to something akin to :

 

8b. he does not give to God his propiatory offering

9. or the price of the redemption of his soul,

10. and he {ceased | stopped | rested } forever and he will live to the end

 

Now of course 10b and 10c make no sense following such a start but oh well.

But I could just about get away with 10a like this :

 

10 though he was wearied by trying forever and he will live to the end

 

That seems a serious mouthful but ok it carries the sense – sort of.

I start to wonder why the indicative was used actually if Brenton is correct here.

 

LSJ's entry for κοπιαω is interesting :

 

κοπ-ιάω, fut. -άσω [α]: aor. ἐκοπίασα Men. Phasm. 36 : pf. κεκοπίακα Apoc. 2.3 : (κόπος):—to be tired, grow weary, Ar. Th. 795, Fr. 318.8, LXX De. 25.18, al.; κ. τὰ σκέλη Alex. 147, Men.l.c.; κ. ὑπὸ ἀγαθῶν to be weary of good things, Ar. Av. 735; ἐκ τῆς ὁδοιπορίας Ev.Jo. 4.6 ; τῇ διανοίᾳ Erasistr. ap. Gal. Consuet. 1: c. part., κ. ὀρχούμενοι Ar. Fr. 602 ; ζῶν AP 12.46 ( Asclep. ); μὴ κοπιάτω φιλοσοφῶν Epicur. Ep. 3p.59U., cf. Plu. 2.185e : aor. part. κοπιάσας, defunctus laboribus, IG 14.1811 :— Med. in act. sense, Arist. Pr. 881a14.

 

II work hard, toil, Ev.Matt. 6.28, etc.; μεθ’ ἡδονῆς κ. Vett.Val. 266.6 ; εἴς τι 1 Ep.Ti. 4.10, cf. Ep.Rom. 16.6; ἔν τινι 1 Ep.Ti. 5.17 ; ἐπί τι LXX Jo. 24.13 : c. inf., strive, struggle, μὴ κοπία ζητεῖν Lyr.Alex.Adesp. 37.7.

 

III = κοπάζω, come to rest: arrive at a state of saturation, PLeid.X. 30 (iii/iv A.D.).

 

III is the obviously interesting bit. My guess then is that one could view the pair as overlapping in semantic range in the sense of “working until one is exhausted”, one emphasising the work, the other the exhaustion perhaps ?

 

Finally if indeed it is as Rahlf's apparatus says that all MSS show κοπιάω why do both Rahlf's Greek and Gottingen show κοπαζω ?

 

It would be interesting to know why. The arguments of similarity to other uses of κοπαζω don't sound convincing to me, but this could be lack of facility and in a decade I may think differently. Anyhow absent anything like Metzger or Comfort for the LXX I doubt we'll have that information.

 

This would appear to be a reason people get into Text Criticism.

 

Anyhow, there are few places Brenton's Greek text differs from Rahlfs and it would be nice to have that Greek edition to run in parallel in Accordance.

 

 

Thx

D