Thread on Logos Forum

[Rick Bennett]

 

Rick,

 

My post was a direct response to #2 of the original post, and an indirect response to some denials that #2 is true in any way. You may copy it to another thread if you wish.

 

I think that your underlying assumption refers to navigating to a lexicon in the desktop, not to an instant details or pop up window. Surely, the underlying assumption in consulting a lexicon is that one wants the correct entry, and I think the pop up in ipad and the <Ctrl> - click pop up in the desktop should flash the correct entry. In fact, a very high percentage of the entries are correct in these instant windows, most likely in the high 90s. Isn't navigating to the correct word/homograph as basic as navigating to a word without homographs?

 

Moreover, in the context of the original post, Logos almost always, in all of its Hebrew lexicons, goes to the correct homograph.

 

I would like you to be more clear on whether you intend to address this. Perhaps there are others beside me who would be willing to highlight the errors, and we could report them that way. After all, quick access to lexical entries is one of the reasons biblical software exists.

 

Michel

 

 

 

I understand your point very clearly, and why it was commented on here.

 

One of the app developers would have to comment on the possibility to enhance this feature; I also forwarded this on so it would not get lost in the thread.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

[Michel Gilbert]

You're welcome, and thank you.

[Battlesman]

Gordon, the price differences varies based on each products. Some books will be cheaper in Accordance (Like the great price we recently got for the WBC) while on others Logos will be cheaper. But in rare occasion the difference is large.

 

But what makes Logos more accessible is the flexible payment plan.

 

Dynamic pricing means that whatever you Logos will take it into consideration whenever you upgrade. Let say you buy three volumes from the WBC and then decide 6 month later that you love the series and want to buy it. Logos will give you a discount for the books you already own. Same thing if you upgrade from Silver to Gold, whatever books you acquire that are now included in Gold (although were not part of Silver) Logos will give you a credit toward the purchase of the Gold so you do not have to pay twice for the same books.

 

They also offer community pricing by which the user community bids on the resources and when it gains enough interest it goes into production saving you money because the community set the price for it.

 

Lastly, the have a pre-puirchase program which you get discounts if you pre buy before it goes live. Of course, you do not pay for it until you get the book.

 

I believe that in the above aspects Logos has the upper hand. Prices that adjust based on what you currently own is, in my opinion, vitally missing from Accordance's sales.

 

In addition, Accordance's payment plan leaves much to be desired. When they ask for references, they actually call them! That was highly surprising to both me and those who I put down for references. (Maybe I missed a big disclaimer?) I got several texts and phone calls saying, "Why does Accordance want to talk with me?" I can't help but wonder if the type of people who are buying *Bible* software are going to be responsible enough not to put fake people down on the reference sheet.

[Martin Z]

This is a good topic.

 

I also want to bring up some problems.

I have submitted a few corrections. Some were already corrected which I will not put here.

 

1. When a Hebrew verb is translated into English, if the English translation has preposition(s) after the verb, I saw almost always the preposition(s) were tagged, not the verb. This is so common, I finally gave up submitting correction suggestions.

For example, Dan 2:25,

l¶Eo◊nAh means "brought in", but in ESV "in" is tagged instead of the verb "brought."

 

2. If the translated verb followed by a preposition and a noun, then the noun is tagged.

For example, Dan 2:34

t®qäé;dAh means "broke ... in pieces," but in ESV "pieces" is tagged instead of the verb "broke."

 

3. Words in ESV although tagged, are not linked with the BHS, or verse visa.

For example, Dan 5:13,

l™AoUh is not linked to "brought" in ESV.

 

4. Words wrongly linked.

For example, Dan 5:13,

y¢It◊yAh should be linked to the second "brought" toward the end of the verse rather than the first one.

 

Judges 3:15,

Aoy#Ivwøm means "deliverer", not Moab. This is theologically problematic

 

5. wrong lexical entry

For example, Judges 5:2,

the word is correctly parsed as a noun, but the definition (in the instant detail) and lexicon (DCH) regard it as a verb.

 

6. Parsing error

For example, Judges 4:20,

JK#ElEaVv…w is perfect waw consecutive, not a regular perfect.

 

 

Martin

 

 

[tony10000]

 

I believe that in the above aspects Logos has the upper hand. Prices that adjust based on what you currently own is, in my opinion, vitally missing from Accordance's sales.

 

In addition, Accordance's payment plan leaves much to be desired. When they ask for references, they actually call them! That was highly surprising to both me and those who I put down for references. (Maybe I missed a big disclaimer?) I got several texts and phone calls saying, "Why does Accordance want to talk with me?" I can't help but wonder if the type of people who are buying *Bible* software are going to be responsible enough not to put fake people down on the reference sheet.

 

Per the previous host from Helen, Accordance will have special pricing similar to what Logos offers.

 

And their payment plan is reflective of their system. With Logos, if you stop paying, they can just "turn off" your access to the books. With Accordance, it is more of a real loan since they have no way to get the books back once you download them. So, they are justified in being more careful.

[Rick Bennett]

This is a good topic.

 

I also want to bring up some problems.

I have submitted a few corrections. Some were already corrected which I will not put here.

 

1. When a Hebrew verb is translated into English, if the English translation has preposition(s) after the verb, I saw almost always the preposition(s) were tagged, not the verb. This is so common, I finally gave up submitting correction suggestions.

For example, Dan 2:25,

http://www.accordancebible.com/forums/public/style_images/master/attachicon.gifScreenshot 2014-09-18 21.21.50.png

l¶Eo◊nAh means "brought in", but in ESV "in" is tagged instead of the verb "brought."

 

2. If the translated verb followed by a preposition and a noun, then the noun is tagged.

For example, Dan 2:34

http://www.accordancebible.com/forums/public/style_images/master/attachicon.gifScreenshot 2014-09-18 21.26.17.png

t®qäé;dAh means "broke ... in pieces," but in ESV "pieces" is tagged instead of the verb "broke."

 

3. Words in ESV although tagged, are not linked with the BHS, or verse visa.

For example, Dan 5:13,

http://www.accordancebible.com/forums/public/style_images/master/attachicon.gifScreenshot 2014-09-18 21.37.56.png

l™AoUh is not linked to "brought" in ESV.

 

4. Words wrongly linked.

For example, Dan 5:13,

http://www.accordancebible.com/forums/public/style_images/master/attachicon.gifScreenshot 2014-09-18 21.40.01.png

y¢It◊yAh should be linked to the second "brought" toward the end of the verse rather than the first one.

 

Judges 3:15,

http://www.accordancebible.com/forums/public/style_images/master/attachicon.gifScreenshot 2014-09-18 21.42.24.png

Aoy#Ivwøm means "deliverer", not Moab. This is theologically problematic

 

5. wrong lexical entry

For example, Judges 5:2,

the word is correctly parsed as a noun, but the definition (in the instant detail) and lexicon (DCH) regard it as a verb.

http://www.accordancebible.com/forums/public/style_images/master/attachicon.gifScreenshot 2014-09-15 09.25.57.png

 

6. Parsing error

For example, Judges 4:20,

JK#ElEaVv…w is perfect waw consecutive, not a regular perfect.

http://www.accordancebible.com/forums/public/style_images/master/attachicon.gifScreenshot 2014-09-17 00.57.42.png

 

 

Martin

 

 

 

Some of these are due to tagging which we do not maintain (HMT-W4), others more of a methodological consideration in tagging phrases in key number texts, and likely a few legit errors. Please email this so they get logged and corrected. We cannot ensure they get corrected when buried in a post like this.

[davidmedina]

 

Per the previous host from Helen, Accordance will have special pricing similar to what Logos offers.

 

And their payment plan is reflective of their system. With Logos, if you stop paying, they can just "turn off" your access to the books. With Accordance, it is more of a real loan since they have no way to get the books back once you download them. So, they are justified in being more careful.

 

Totally! They have to be good stewards.

 

But Logos method has allowed me to get the resources I want because of their type of payment plan and dynamic Pricing.

Edited September 19, 2014 by davidmedina

[Martin Z]

 

others more of a methodological consideration in tagging phrases in key number texts

 

Please email this so they get logged and corrected. We cannot ensure they get corrected when buried in a post like this.

 

by "others more of a methodological consideration in tagging phrases in key number texts" do you mean the 1st and 2nd cases?

 

In my opinion, verbs should be linked with verbs, not with prepositions and nouns. the prepositions and nouns in the 1st and 2nd cases are modifiers per se. They modify the verb(s). Unless those modifiers have their Hebrew counterpart (such as Hebrew prepositions and nouns), we should highlight the verbs which are the counterparts of the Hebrew verbs.

English is my second language, therefore I am not so confident with that. I'll leave this to others to judge.

 

I have emailed most of the examples here. Some a few days ago (the examples in Judges. I believe these might be corrected in the next update), some months ago (the examples in Daniel, in April).

 

Martin

[davidmedina]

Can you tell me what the price for the Anchor Bible Commentary series was when it was on sale at Logos?

 

Not sure what it was or if it was on sale (probably has) as it is not a set that I want to buy.

 

But my point is that some volumes in Accordance will be at time cheaper while at others will be cheaper in Logos. It is hard to claim, unless you do a deep comparison to find out, which one offers consistently lower prices. In most cases that I have seen the differences are marginals unless there is a big sale. Logos has a more aggressive business model and have frequent web sales and phone only sales.

Edited September 19, 2014 by davidmedina

[davidmedina]

One thing Accordance has the clear edge over Logos is this forum.

 

Whenever I come here I learn a lot. It is a welcoming forum.

 

For me, both Logos and Accordance has been a great asset and blessing to my Bible study and spiritual life.

[Helen Brown]

I am closing this topic for several reasons:

 

it has become a catchall for comments on Accordance pricing and other policies, and for comments on features. These are better addressed in separate topics so that relevant replies to a post are not buried in other unrelated topics.

 

We see no benefit in these long comparisons and discussions which seem to be carried on right now on both forums, largely by the same people. It's not good for us whichever way the opinion goes. I recommend that you fight these battles on neutral ground, or or your own blogs.